Just for kicks, dive into the internet and cue up some tunes from the bands that established Eric Clapton as a guitar player deluxe -- The Blues Breakers and Cream. Listen to how Clapton builds his melodies with short, punchy phrases, aka, riffs. Listen to Clapton repeat and embellish those riffs during the solos, letting each repetition add to the sass, drama or elation of the moment. Listen to how he ends his solos -- with the musical equivalent of an "uh huh, that's the way it is" flourish. Is Clapton is telling little stories with his solos? I say, yeah.

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Originally posted by Lonesome Fiddler

Just for kicks, dive into the internet and cue up some tunes from the bands that established Eric Clapton as a guitar player deluxe -- The Blues Breakers and Cream. Listen to how Clapton builds his melodies with short, punchy phrases, aka, riffs. Listen to Clapton repeat and embellish those riffs during the solos, letting each repetition add to the sass, drama or elation of the moment. Listen to how he ends his solos -- with the musical equivalent of an "uh huh, that's the way it is" flourish. Is Clapton is telling little stories with his solos? I say, yeah.

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Who is Eric Classtone???  ......and what the heck is a guitar???  You must be from a different planet. 

......and what the heck is a guitar??

It's like a banjer with a wooden top/skin. Some Spanish thing I think?

Chech my time code. 4:41 a.m. Storming an inch an hour plus. Cats are looking at me like it's my fault.

But Knopfler tells those tales just as nice, if not better. I think i must know every note he ever played in his solo's. They just make sense to me. Even way back at first listening.

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Originally posted by pete_fiddle

But Knopfler tells those tales just as nice, if not better. I think i must know every note he ever played in his solo's. They just make sense to me. Even way back at first listening.

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Yeah, they may make more sense. But to my ears and sensibilities, Clapton conveys more sheer elation. I also must report that, being a music-obsessed L.A. kid who came of age in the late '60's,  I probably saw every top notch guitar slinger of the day.

Yeah, there's loads of em, but Knopfler sticks out for me. Mainly because i can't play with a pick..

Stevie Ray Vaughan - period, end of sentence.

Then again, there are folks who are always better at speaking in  their own language.  Django, Chet, Jerry, Jimmi, Tommy......... the list is long.

And - is what they are doing more about "firsting" than "seconding" when they play?

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Originally posted by tonyelder

Stevie Ray Vaughan - period, end of sentence.

Then again, there are folks who are always better at speaking in  their own language.  Django, Chet, Jerry, Jimmi, Tommy......... the list is long.

And - is what they are doing more about "firsting" than "seconding" when they play?

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They are hearing and playing both, and making the best of both of em imo, to become more than the sum of their part(s)

I'm sure I've mentioned this a couple times on this website, but when I fell for Django, I took guitar lessons from a guy who specialized in Gypsy Jazz. In any case, I have a couple of Django how-to books. More importantly, it was listening to Stephane Grappelli that gave me the impetus to take up the fiddle in the first place. Finally, yeah, whenever a Gypsy Jazz artist made it to L.A., I made sure I saw him perform.

You might like this guy then, he lives just down the road and plays in my friends band!!!

incredible talent just round the corner .....Amazing....... Especially on a Martin, don't think they where made for that stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=selTt4OhRvg&list=RDselTt4OhRvg&index=1

And don't forget Tony, Doc, Norman, Dan, Bryan, Brad ---- and then more recently Billy and Molly

that's what a guitar is.... but where is all this coming from?  

y'all have fun figuring that out.  

OK. Most often (imo) a guitarist playing a solo is not playing the melody nor are they accompanying anyone playing the melody.

I guess you could say the melody would not be - being played, but "implied" or understood within the context of the solo.

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Originally posted by tonyelder

OK. Most often (imo) a guitarist playing a solo is not playing the melody nor are they accompanying anyone playing the melody.

I guess you could say the melody would not be - being played, but "implied" or understood within the context of the solo.

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Sounds right to me Tony.

Like scat singing instead of singing the actual words.

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Originally posted by farmerjones

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Originally posted by tonyelder

OK. Most often (imo) a guitarist playing a solo is not playing the melody nor are they accompanying anyone playing the melody.

I guess you could say the melody would not be - being played, but "implied" or understood within the context of the solo.

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Sounds right to me Tony.

Like scat singing instead of singing the actual words.

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That's improvisation.  Do something that fits the rhythmic and harmonic phrasing structure of the piece, generally following the conventions of whatever style you're working in.  

I'm suspicious of the whole concept of "melody", especially when it's assumed to be THE definition of a piece. Melody occupies just one dimension among many, and if you're talking about dance music, it can (and often should) be of only peripheral importance.

I think this thread has gotten pretty far from the original post. There's at least two other topics here for discussion. One is how do you back up (or second) another fiddler if you're playing fiddle with them and the other is how to play harmony with an another fiddler. Both good topics by the way.

My simple response to the original post (if I understand it correctly) is that I try to fit into the version being played by the fiddler that started the tune. I try to pick up on specific notes they are playing when I can and I play below them volume wise trying to fit into what they are doing. The main thing is not to interfere with their version.

One of my observations in playing with other fiddlers is that the good ones can play along with and adapt to other fiddlers and the not so good ones can only play the version they learned. I"m not there yet, but I'm trying to be the former.

Have to add that rather than seconding on a fiddle I personally would rather add parts to the whole sound by adding rhythm mandolin, ukulele, or finger-picked banjo.

Harmony --
Try playing Thirds to the notes the lead player's playing (yeah, it's the Mi in the Do-Re-Mi's).  You can also alternate between playing the actual note being played and its Fifth (the "So", or is that "Sol?"). It' also works to play the Fifth below the note the lead player is playing. Don't overdo any of this, though. For most of the tune, just simply play the same notes the other player is playing.

Just realized... Someone mentioned Tricia Spencer, but no one brought up her unique and excellent book, a significant portion of which is about playing second!

https://www.spencerandrains.com/product-page/the-fiddle-garden

How about record a tune, then play along with yourself?
Eventually get a 2nd recording device to record your progress.

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Originally posted by Dan Gellert

Just realized... Someone mentioned Tricia Spencer, but no one brought up her unique and excellent book, a significant portion of which is about playing second!

https://www.spencerandrains.com/product-page/the-fiddle-garden

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Awesome, thanks for the heads up. 

Here's yet another example of her great seconding and one of my favorites.

Stumptown Stomp