Hey let's celebrate the diversity of bow holds among our fiddler icons!

https://youtu.be/kpkQXZ4AcFc

(the video focuses on well-known fiddlers in the Irish tradition, but I'm sure a similar survey could be done for Old Time, Bluegrass, etc.)

"That's nothing like a violin of our times. It's made of stone, probably granite. Nobody makes violins out of granite anymore." FHO Gold

What a great analytical undertaking by that video maker, JonD!

Me: 4 fingers, full bow (and yes I do admire Sean Ryan and Kevin Burke greatly, who are also listed in that camp). I used to "choke up" on the bow but I had bow-skittering issues (maybe due to having light cheap bow, haha).

( Can't believe this thread is still going?! Complete with mysterious memes! )

NCnotes - I believe the "mysterious meme" above is a simplified version of an Oscar.
The maker of that video JonD posted was Randy Miller, brother of Rodney Miller. I sent you some examples of his fine playing - a very musical family, now down to the grandkids.
As it happens, there is a stock photo available of my bow hold in action - you can purchase a copy to hang in your practice space for inspiration! Since I can post a sample here, I will. If that doesn't kill the thread, I don't know what else I can do!

I thought I was done, but I found this video on old time bow holds, of which there are many:
youtu.be/Hiv4NfSixJo?si=1D4sh-SmV5YNBR7S

I think that's a super video, Doug!
Almost worth its own thread :-)

For people who are hung up on the perfect "classical hold"...
he is clearly a great player, and you can hear him explaining how he adjusts his hold for the tone/sound/agility that he wants. Fiddlers are not playing Brahms or Beethoven... they are playing quick rhythmic dance tunes with lots of doublestops and drones, and the classical hold may not be the "best way" to achieve that.

But there are some common themes... for example, every style of fiddler or violinist will talk about not having tension, and using wrist & fingers (vs bowing from shoulder).

This cannot be over-emphasized. The idea of releasing/playing without tension when playing. I find that it applies to all the instruments that I play. Certainly one of the main things that allows the really good players to sound as good as they do.

English power-house Mikey Kenney has quite a magical grip on that bow... 
https://youtu.be/EvN8G0aL62A

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

English power-house Mikey Kenney has quite a magical grip on that bow... 
https://youtu.be/EvN8G0aL62A

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That is a fabulous performance. It ticks all the boxes. Great song (I wonder if it's the original from where seven drunken nights came from), great arrangement and great playing. 

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

English power-house Mikey Kenney has quite a magical grip on that bow... 
https://youtu.be/EvN8G0aL62A

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Agree with martyjoe, fabulous.

I've always thought that English fiddle/traditional music doesn't get enough attention amongst players - at least over here in the US. There's a huge and old (and new), body of work.

Actually, I learned my bow hold from an Englishman - Pete Cooper, and here's a video of him demonstrating his hold: https://youtu.be/nuQoMvwV4w0

Mr. Cooper also writes fiddle books of which I have a couple. One of them a book of 99 English fiddle tunes.

agree..,and its influence on appalachian style is obvious.

another of my favorite english acts...https://youtu.be/22U7vIq-UEU

i am openy covetous of uk/ireland and europe where i see trad music presented on real stages with real production so often... here in the usa we are lucky to get hay bales and a pa that sounds like a tin can 

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Originally posted by DougD

I thought I was done, but I found this video on old time bow holds, of which there are many:
youtu.be/Hiv4NfSixJo?si=1D4sh-SmV5YNBR7S

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For someone who went through the Suzuki program, his description of the "classical" bow hold is a bit bizarre. I can't tell whether he received bad instruction or he just didn't understand the lessons. There is no classical bow hold where the fingers arent supposed to be completely flexible and the grip light. That's true of the Franco-Belgian hold, the Russian hold, and the German hold that is no longer in use. It's commonly said of the great players that their holds were so light that it seemed as though you could just pluck the bow right of their hands without effort. When you watch a professional player's bow hand, it's almost supernatural just how loose and flexible the fingers are. Just watch a player do some audition excerpts with spiccato and you can see how much the fingers are guiding the bow freely.

Yes, fiddlers use all kinds of bow holds. That's not news. It's also not a badge of honor or a secret to playing well. Fiddlers who have been succcessful using less-than-ideal holds have had to make it to that point by working around limitations or keeping their repertoire and technique very narrowly restricted. 

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Originally posted by martyjoe

quote:

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

English power-house Mikey Kenney has quite a magical grip on that bow... 
https://youtu.be/EvN8G0aL62A

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That is a fabulous performance. It ticks all the boxes. Great song (I wonder if it's the original from where seven drunken nights came from), great arrangement and great playing. 

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No question that it's an early version of Seven Drunken Nights, a song that, in various versions, has spread far and wide.

quote:

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

agree..,and its influence on appalachian style is obvious.

another of my favorite english acts...https://youtu.be/22U7vIq-UEU

i am openy covetous of uk/ireland and europe where i see trad music presented on real stages with real production so often... here in the usa we are lucky to get hay bales and a pa that sounds like a tin can 

 

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I really enjoyed that. And on the subject of holds the accordion player has the restrictive thumb behind the keyboard hold which comes from playing standing up. Irish players usually sit and have their thumb in the groove to the side. 

i think the idea of 'secret' techniques is more an attention grabbing thing in music instruction that is seen in a lot of genres of music

... a badge of honor? unfortunately, my bow hold changes often due to a right hand that has been stressed and injured from everything from martial arts to sports to industrial labor...

was it martyjoe who said the secret is 'sleep'? i think that is true for me. and a nice cup of green tea in the afternoon

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

i think the idea of 'secret' techniques is more an attention grabbing thing in music instruction that is seen in a lot of genres of music

... a badge of honor? unfortunately, my bow hold changes often due to a right hand that has been stressed and injured from everything from martial arts to sports to industrial labor...

was it martyjoe who said the secret is 'sleep'? i think that is true for me. and a nice cup of green tea in the afternoon

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I too like the idea of plenty of sleep and love a nice cup of tea. Both of these things seem to put me in the best frame of mind to play. Though, often times the tea is easier to come by.

It’s also true what you say about hands. If you look at a pro violinist’s hands, they often look as though they’ve never done anything else but play violin with them - which may to some degree be true. Nice job if you can get it.

Kreisler used to say that soaking his hands in warm water before playing did more for him than practicing. While I don’t think any mere mortal could skip practicing like that and sound so immaculate, I have found that the method does make the fingers feel more nimble. When I was growing up, I used to soak my hands in water for a few minutes before practicing during the winter so that my hands wouldn’t go numb from the cold as fast and so that it was easier to get into the practice session without trying to energize fingers that were sluggish.

I also gave a few recitals with a pianist who had chronically cold hands. She would wear gloves before playing to warm her hands up.

Nothing worse than cold hands. Add nerves into the mix and you have a problem.

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Originally posted by Johnbow

Nothing worse than cold hands. Add nerves into the mix and you have a problem.

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Cold hands and cold feet! 

I've never had the patience to just soak my hands long enough for it to make much difference - however, I've certainly found that after washing dishes or stepping out of the shower, my fingers are all set for fiddling.

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Originally posted by Old Scratch

I've never had the patience to just soak my hands long enough for it to make much difference - however, I've certainly found that after washing dishes or stepping out of the shower, my fingers are all set for fiddling.

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I guess it must be the increased blood flow.

Now, if we can just get the event organizers to install either a kitchen sink or a shower, we'll be set. :)