Yes. Not very often but some players bowing that way are pretty good

Perhaps, she’s trying to tension the heck out of it?

hope she's not been eating greasy food 

I haven’t seen a modern player do that before. In the days before there was a screw to tighten the hair and the frog simply clipped onto the stick, players would adjust hair tension by pressing the hair, but the modern bow design eliminated the need for that practice. The point of designing the bow as it is today was to allow more room for playing long bow strokes and to set a consistent balance point.

By playing that way the fiddler is drastically reducing the playable area and completely abandoning the balance of the bow. Choking up on the stick that way makes it a bit more like playing with a baroque bow, so you get quick articulation and airy, light strokes. There’s no advantage to holding the hair, though, as the stick can be held without contaminating the hair with oils, sweat, and dirt.

It certainly doesn’t look comfortable.

I first came across her playing "Big Scioty" with this group, but I like this one better: youtu.be/P_ny7tjMAcU?si=AQctqkquzncZOb3U
Looks like she's holding her bow more conventionally here. Pretty good fiddler.

Yeh, the only reason for this that I could think of was that the hair was stretched and the screw had reached its limit. But I have never experienced anything like that and it doesn’t seem very likely to happen.

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Originally posted by Strabo

Yeh, the only reason for this that I could think of was that the hair was stretched and the screw had reached its limit. But I have never experienced anything like that and it doesn’t seem very likely to happen.

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It happens more often than you think. A bow maker taught me that when you can't tighten the hair enough (usually due to very damp weather). you take a piece of a match stick (or twig), loosen the hair and slide the piece of stick under the hair at the tip of the bow. That should allow you to  tighten the hair without bottoming out.

https://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/28162

making mountain out of a mole hill?

ive dropped my bow in a performance and quickly picked it up with a similar grip and continued fiddling...

this bow hold isnt any more radical than any other bow hold...

most fiddlers have unique bow holds

There are all kinds of “unique” ways to do things, but "unique" and "good" are not synonymous. 

good or bad is opinion...

unique bow grips among fiddlers?....just the way it is  

If you zoom in you'll see that the frog is way out at the end of its run - seems like a 'needs must' situation in high humidity. BTW check out her Bandcamp recordings -- some pretty nice tracks on 'never ending OT nonsense album vol1' and vol2.

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

good or bad is opinion...

unique bow grips among fiddlers?....just the way it is  

 

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Good and bad bow holds are determined by their efficacy, something which is not subjective. A bad bow hold causes mechanical problems in playing. A good one allows better freedom of movement and fluidity in bowing. The argument that good and bad in violin technique is just an opinion is really a lazy way to justify/excuse bad technique.

fiddlers hold the bow the way they want to, the way they choose to, and the way they feel like holding it...opinions or critiques from outside the world of fiddling (for ex. the classical world) have had little to no influence as evidenced by the myriad of accomplished fiddlers with varying bow holds over centuries in the beautiful unbroken living tradition of fiddling

"the argument that good and bad in violin technique is just an opinion" is a random strawman argument inserted into this conversation

I agree here with Shawn. There is nothing in any players technique that somehow pollutes or takes away from the formal techniques followed by classical players. There are just different ways to do things to make sound on the instrument. It's true that standard classical bowing technique allows certain wrist freedoms once they are learned. There's an ideal there that learning to have maximum freedom and flexibility is the default good. But it's also true that players not paying attention to that and who use less conventional techniques harm no one and, perhaps for many of them, find fullfillment in figuring things out for themselves and ending up with interesting results.

There's two ways to looking at playing the violin, and one is Rich's view that there is a narrow road to improvment that essentially sees using traditional techniques maximizing effeciency as the only true path, and every other way of approaching playing that players discover on their own or by copying traditional, perhaps "non-optimal" methods. Suum cuique.

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Originally posted by ShawnCraver

fiddlers hold the bow the way they want to, the way they choose to, and the way they feel like holding it...opinions or critiques from outside the world of fiddling (for ex. the classical world) have had little to no influence as evidenced by the myriad of accomplished fiddlers with varying bow holds over centuries in the beautiful unbroken living tradition of fiddling

"the argument that good and bad in violin technique is just an opinion" is a random strawman argument inserted into this conversation

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The good and bad argument came directly from your previous post, so if you think it's a straw man, I wonder why you chose to make it.

Yes, some fiddlers use unorthodox bow holds to play. This often happens as the result of being self-taught or never having had the opportunity to learn from a violin teacher. When fiddlers discuss their technique in interviews, it's not uncommon for them to say that they'd have learned a different way had they had the opportunity or if they hadn't spent so long doing things as they did. There have also been plenty of fiddlers with more standard bow holds. Having a unique bow hold isn't what makes a player a fiddler.

It's also important to keep in mind that fiddle tunes don't tend to cover as wide a technical range as some other genres require. Just like fiddlers often hold the violin in ways that aren't ideal for all violin technique, they often hold the bow in ways that have limited uses. If they find success, it's not proof that their bow holds are good but rather that they have found ways to play despite their unorthodox technique.

As an analogy, there have been some famous golf players who have had some techniques that were not particularly great. Arnold Palmer was infamous for his "flying elbow" in his swing. He was a legendary player who made history and endeared everyone. But that success came as the result of his incredible ability to work complications. His unique swing was not the cause of any success. If you want to study the fundamentals of golf technique, there are players whose technique is much more ideal. Books are written to provide the best overall information that has been proven to work for the majority of players. If you're an aspiring player wanting to learn how to improve, looking to the fundamentals of good technique is a much surer way to improvement than copying some eccentricity of a famous player or looking to personally reinvent playing technique without knowing the game yet. 
 

If there's truly an unbroken tradition in fiddling, I don't think it's based on weird ideas about how to hold the bow, but rather on how to phrase tunes. 

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful
If there's truly an unbroken tradition in fiddling, I don't think it's based on weird ideas about how to hold the bow, but rather on how to phrase tunes. 

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I agree.

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Originally posted by carlb

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful
If there's truly an unbroken tradition in fiddling, I don't think it's based on weird ideas about how to hold the bow, but rather on how to phrase tunes. 

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I agree.

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Me too.

Well, violinists have figured out the techniques/ergonomics for fast playing, good tone, bow control, and I think most fiddlers would be interested in that. You could go it alone, but why reinvent the wheel unless you have to? It’s slower to figure out every thing by yourself…maybe just take what is helpful out of classical techniques and abandon what doesn’t work for you… (I abandoned my pinky on the bow at some point, and both of the great fiddlers I had lessons with, gave me their blessing :-) I felt like I needed some kind of official ‘permission’, LOL)

FIngers on bow hair - maybe she wants her bow very tight for that part of the music? LIke for bouncing or fast playing? Or something is technically wrong with her bow (not tightening as it should)? Yea but touching the hair down there directly is eventually going to render that part of her bow unusable…

It doesn’t make much sense. If the goal is to tighten the hair more, this hold does exactly the opposite, as squeezing it against the stick brings it closer to the stick overall. The old matchstick trick at the tip will actually make the hair functionally shorter.

The photo reminds me of the “stock” violinist photos of models who have no clue how to hold a violin pretending to play. There are some pretty unique bow holds. TwoSet used to get fans to send them these pictures and they’d make videos attempting to play like the models in the photos. I realize that this is a picture of an actual fiddler, but that hold makes no sense at all.

- I conflated two topics but meant to post my reply here instead of the one about bending thumb knuckle. Now it's in both. 

I have found that the thumb under hold gives me better control over the bow. Think of how the fingers and thumb position provides better leverage for both increasing and decreasing bow pressure quickly. For whatever reason I have also always found it gives a bit fuller tone which suits my style.

Whatever that woman is doing with her bow... I decided to search online and found a video of her playing in a band with that hold. It doesn't answer the question, but she looks like a fairly inexperienced player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dw6LihZ0iI

Brian - Follow the link I posted in this thread on April 20, to her playing "Forky Deer." I thought she was pretty good.

some of the replies are just coming from left field and attributing ideas to me that I didn't present......for ex: i didn't describe any bow hold as good or bad...

...or assign any 'good' or 'bad' technical value to 'unique'

and conflating unbroken tradition with bow grip?... did anyone say that? ever?

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Originally posted by DougD

Brian - Follow the link I posted in this thread on April 20, to her playing "Forky Deer." I thought she was pretty good.

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Yeah, she's better here. Still unconventional grip. Hey, when I call that tune "Forky Deer" people look at me weirdly and tell me I'm supposed to say "Fork-ed". Maybe that's California.

SHawn LOL, you are getting around the limited emojis available on FHO 

By the way, I like her playing! I think she's good! THanks for the link Doug.