lol..oh my gosh...there's a lot of hot topics to know about before one speaks...lol. I guess I didn't learn my lesson on BHO about the drop thumb conundrum...lol. Glad I haven't been to the mando forums...lol.

I guess currently fingerpicks are my hot topic. Even though I spent good money on a new guitar and cannot ever get any inkling of a minute to play the doggone thing...I'm still struggling with being ready, or not, to go back to finger picks. I did the nails strictly for Presonus. Now I ain't got time for that either, but sick of two big nails getting in my way for ragler stuff I've always gotta do. Not sure how so many grow the big long decorative nails and get through life without them just scraping through anything else they try to do. And have always been confused as to how Dolly Parton ever played so well with her big long nails on the left hand too. But...I keep tossing and turning over to have nails or go back to Ernie Ball banjo picks twisted up into shape for guitar fingerpicking. I used fingerpicks for about the first 50 years of my guitar playing...only new to nails over picks...they are quite and very flexible and light for recording...but...well...yeah it's off topic now so forgive me for that...what was it again we'uz a talkin' about?

Yeah...I still like calling it "Folk." Gives me that sense of artistic license.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shawn Craver Fiddler

i don't know... i mean the whole discussion on capos... lots of words about capos

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LOL!  I guess so.    

As my wife will sometimes say, "Somebody must have needed it."

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

Tony, earlier in the thread you reported on the healthy old time music scenein Mt. View. Its also thriving around here, with young and old. A few examples:
cowancreekmusic.org/ I guess time would b short for this one.
mecc.edu/mountain-music-school/
These schools are open to all ages - the young and the young at heart. Many of the kids who attend do so on scholarship, and can use donated instruments to learn on. Many probably qualify for subsidized meals at school, and that can be hard to provide during the summer, so lunches from the local pizza place or Subway are welcome (and were for me too when I was there). It was always fun to watch the students in informal jams after lunch, playing whatever came into their heads.

Around this region many schools and community organizations host the "JAM" (Junior Appalachian Musicians) programs:
jamkids.org/

Programs can be anywhere, though. Years ago there was a place on Long Island called "The Guitar Workshop" that provided lessons and general exposure to traditional music. Here's a recollection of what it meant to some:
banjohangout.org/archive/219045

Lastly, for those struggling to define "Old Time Music," this Wikipedia article does a pretty good job:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old-time_music

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Scott and Shea Poole are actively in the process of trying to sell the Music Store in Mtn View (both great old time musicians - kind of explains where Luke got it from) - and will be moving south and east of you - across the line in SC (I think). Terrible loss for Mt View, but it will give me an excuse to travel that way some. 

Hopefully, someone with Scott and Shea's business acumen and love of OT music will buy the store. They were a big reason for us to visit the town - to play music. We know a few folks a little better now, so I'm not afraid to go... but... 

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

A couple more things: I made that recording of Morgan Sexton, using the most accurate microphones I own, so depending on how you're listening, that's pretty close to how he actually sounded. Due to some earlier technical problems not involving me, we recorded the entire "Rock Dust" LP in one afternoon. Most or all of that earlier LP was included on his "Shady Grove" CD, with some additional material I didn't record.
In my days playing guitar with Highwoods I never used a capo, but we only played in D,A,G and C. Not so much for tone, but the D and A chords give more possibilities in the bass than using a capo. I can play in any key, but if someone wanted a guitar lead for "Wildwood Flower" in Eb, I'd probably reach for the pencil and rubber bands. Same with banjo - I can play in any key, but it might not sound like Earl Scruggs (or even Don Reno).
PS - Highwoods sets were typically 45 minutes to an hour long, during which we would usually play in three keys (sometimes two or four). But the keys were arranged to minimize retuning the banjo, either just retuning one or two strings OR adding the capo. We might start in D, then go to A and then to G, or G - C- D, but never from C to A, or G to D etc.
We also never cross tuned the fiddles. I asked Walt about that years later and he said "You know how long it takes to retune one fiddle. Can you imagine how long it would take to retune two?" Our shows were meant to be entertaining, not boring.

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That is exactly how I design the set lists for concerts that involve a banjo. We often start in D down to C to G and then up to A. If there were to be an AEae tune, I'd bring another fiddle, but pretty much never cross for concerts for the same reason Walt said - and I have quick planetary tuners. Just not worth the fuss.

Since this thread alerted me to things capo, I came across this short video of Larry Sparks explaining his preference, which is somewhat unusual.
youtube.com/shorts/Is39eEoz5Uk...re=shared

quote:

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

lol..oh my gosh...there's a lot of hot topics to know about before one speaks...lol. I guess I didn't learn my lesson on BHO about the drop thumb conundrum...lol. Glad I haven't been to the mando forums...lol.

I guess currently fingerpicks are my hot topic. Even though I spent good money on a new guitar and cannot ever get any inkling of a minute to play the doggone thing...I'm still struggling with being ready, or not, to go back to finger picks. I did the nails strictly for Presonus. Now I ain't got time for that either, but sick of two big nails getting in my way for ragler stuff I've always gotta do. Not sure how so many grow the big long decorative nails and get through life without them just scraping through anything else they try to do. And have always been confused as to how Dolly Parton ever played so well with her big long nails on the left hand too. But...I keep tossing and turning over to have nails or go back to Ernie Ball banjo picks twisted up into shape for guitar fingerpicking. I used fingerpicks for about the first 50 years of my guitar playing...only new to nails over picks...they are quite and very flexible and light for recording...but...well...yeah it's off topic now so forgive me for that...what was it again we'uz a talkin' about?

Yeah...I still like calling it "Folk." Gives me that sense of artistic license.

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I have been eyeing up the two best guitar and mando players, Peggy (NO not in that sense, hahaha) and they both use picks. They play both melody line and harmony (chords) and seem pretty agile and content with their picks. In a group they really need to project their sound ... sometimes they are really slamming ... plus maybe guys don't like to grow nails - but in any case, when playing loud in the group they would probably shred any nails they had!

But when I played classical guitar, we all used our natural nails - it's such a warm tone with a lot of subtlety ( more finger vs more nail, for different parts of the piece) so maybe as a solo artist, natural nails will work in that way for you...

quote:

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Originally posted by NCnotes

quote:

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

lol..oh my gosh...there's a lot of hot topics to know about before one speaks...lol. I guess I didn't learn my lesson on BHO about the drop thumb conundrum...lol. Glad I haven't been to the mando forums...lol.

I guess currently fingerpicks are my hot topic. Even though I spent good money on a new guitar and cannot ever get any inkling of a minute to play the doggone thing...I'm still struggling with being ready, or not, to go back to finger picks. I did the nails strictly for Presonus. Now I ain't got time for that either, but sick of two big nails getting in my way for ragler stuff I've always gotta do. Not sure how so many grow the big long decorative nails and get through life without them just scraping through anything else they try to do. And have always been confused as to how Dolly Parton ever played so well with her big long nails on the left hand too. But...I keep tossing and turning over to have nails or go back to Ernie Ball banjo picks twisted up into shape for guitar fingerpicking. I used fingerpicks for about the first 50 years of my guitar playing...only new to nails over picks...they are quite and very flexible and light for recording...but...well...yeah it's off topic now so forgive me for that...what was it again we'uz a talkin' about?

Yeah...I still like calling it "Folk." Gives me that sense of artistic license.

---

I have been eyeing up the two best guitar and mando players, Peggy (NO not in that sense, hahaha) and they both use picks. They play both melody line and harmony (chords) and seem pretty agile and content with their picks. In a group they really need to project their sound ... sometimes they are really slamming ... plus maybe guys don't like to grow nails - but in any case, when playing loud in the group they would probably shred any nails they had!

But when I played classical guitar, we all used our natural nails - it's such a warm tone with a lot of subtlety ( more finger vs more nail, for different parts of the piece) so maybe as a solo artist, natural nails will work in that way for you...

 

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I use a flat pick (1.25) most all the time when I play Bluegrass, some folk songs, and when playing backup for Old Time guitar. But when I'm playing solo material - I will usually play finger style, and a lot of times it will be with the low E dropped to D.  I love playing guitar. But I'm not in a "place" where I can do that like I used to - anymore.

I've tried finger picks in the past - a long time ago. But I can't use them with the way I play. I use my fingers with up both and down strokes - so the pick is going to get hung up. When I was playing / performing much more regularly, I had false nails maintained on my right hand thumb and three fingers. These days - I just use my natural nails. I don't have the same problems any more with my nails tearing up from wear, but I'm not playing nearly as much either. I wish I could change that, but I'm not motivated to go out and "self-promote" to get the "gigs". Never had to do that before. It jsut seem to happen - right place / right time sort of thing. But.... I'm not dead yet - so, who knows. 

This is bare fingers / drop D...  and the other guitar song in my media files - "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome" - is also bare fingers / drop D

Yeah I used picks mainly I guess because I was always playing with others or in places like parties or get-togethers...weddings and just people gathering around, etc. I dropped the fingerpicks only when I started playing on my presonus...it was nice to cozy up to my mic and just gently play without trying to project or be loud...lol. The nails are subtle and I feel like maybe allow for more flexible playing. I cut them...was happy with short nails to do things easily with my hands, but sat down with the guitar for a few minutes one day and just decided now the picks, which I used for a good 50 years or so, are clumsy...lol. So now, I have two long nails again, but no time to play...lol. Ugh...can't win for losin' I guess.

Tony, the Watermelon song sounds great...I'm amazed you can play that way with bare fingers...sounds like, well percussive enough to... what's the word...sort of yield the precise attack of nails or picks. Do you use a thumb pick? I still use a thumb pick with my nails...the angle of my thumb wouldn't land where the thumbnail would be.

NC Notes...I hear ya...some of the slamming BG tunes would grate anybody's nails. I did use a flatpick when I was in the little amateur, extremely amateur BG band and also we went to BG jams around here...flatpicking always kinda hurts my hand...lol...I probably do it wrong...my nails go through a beating even with the flatpick...even though I didn't have them grown out...seems like they got a little chewed up at the quick. Sometimes I gave up with flatpicking and just used my thumb pick and fingerpicks and scrubbed along in my own way instead of all that slamming on the strings with the flatpick. I think I mentioned before when we went in those big BG jams I couldn't hear if I was playing or not...I just had to look down and see if my strings were vibrating...lol...that's the only way I knew I was playing. Honestly, that wasn't what I needed musically and really not fun for me. But I did it long enough to feel like I at least tried it.

quote:

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Originally posted by groundhogpeggy

Yeah I used picks mainly I guess because I was always playing with others or in places like parties or get-togethers...weddings and just people gathering around, etc. I dropped the fingerpicks only when I started playing on my presonus...it was nice to cozy up to my mic and just gently play without trying to project or be loud...lol. The nails are subtle and I feel like maybe allow for more flexible playing. I cut them...was happy with short nails to do things easily with my hands, but sat down with the guitar for a few minutes one day and just decided now the picks, which I used for a good 50 years or so, are clumsy...lol. So now, I have two long nails again, but no time to play...lol. Ugh...can't win for losin' I guess.

Tony, the Watermelon song sounds great...I'm amazed you can play that way with bare fingers...sounds like, well percussive enough to... what's the word...sort of yield the precise attack of nails or picks. Do you use a thumb pick? I still use a thumb pick with my nails...the angle of my thumb wouldn't land where the thumbnail would be.
 

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Bare fingers with short nails. no thumb pick. The percussive sound is from my little finger tapping the pick guard. I don't know how or why I picked up on that - somewhere from within my my subconscious. It is so ingrained in my playing now - I can't hardly play without it "showing up". 

I like it - ok, but I don't like the idea of it being present in everything I play.  But - it does add a little...

I don't know where this post should fit into the current discussion, but everybody who's heard me finger pick the guitar tells me I produce excellent tone via my fingernails. Much better than I ever got with fingerpicks. In any event, musically, Travis style fingerpicking is what I do best.

I guess this topic shouldn't keep reeling like it has, but that's another controversial thing...lol...I've never met anybody who agreed on what Travis picking really is...lol...but maybe that's another topic for another day.

most mandolin players are just wanna be fiddlers seeking attention... mandolin is so easy to play, a person doesn't need a capo. or even much talent really. even easier to play than a banjo.

Killing me Craver, my kid's a mando player.

So what's lower then a mandolin player, in the hierarchy ? Are French horn players actually people even?

;)

quote:

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Originally posted by wrench13

So what's lower then a mandolin player, in the hierarchy ? Are French horn players actually people even?

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I think they were considered people at one point in history.

Isn’t it a sign of the lack of interest in fiddling that even on a fiddle-specific forum, on a thread started to discuss why more people want to talk about the banjo, the conversation ends up being about plucked instrument playing instead?

I think in the end, I'd rather fiddle than talk about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

I think in the end, I'd rather fiddle than talk about it.

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Ok, I can understand that and I respect that opinion. However, that raises the question: what is is that draws you or other similarly-minded people to post on the forum then? I think this is a serious and important question because I do notice that sometimes it feels as though the "hangout" part of it is the main draw for a lot of members, because it allows them to socialize in a way that they perhaps don't in normal life. In that case, the informative, theoretical, news-oriented, or commercial aspects are somewhat superfluous. 
 

For current members who have formed online friendships and enjoyed the banter and personal stories that are posted periodically, it probably seems a lot more practical to keep things as they are and just let the other aspects slide. For prospective members or current members who are looking for more information or discussion of specific topics related to the fiddle, that format is frustrating, though, because it doesn't satisfy their desire for the practical side. I think that's what's making some people ask about ways to add more to the forum. There isn't any consensus so far, though. As the older members lose interest or die, their circle necessarily grows smaller. The longevity of the forum really comes down to the amount of desire among members to make it last and the willingness of potential members to join and post.

If only we could find a way to spam the spammers back and maybe recruit one out of every hundred to get into the discussion and take up a fiddle. 

All for that Rich! Sometimes I think if people spent the time practicing that they spent posting, they'd be better fiddlers (guilty sometimes). But more hard info sub-forums would seem to be a good thing. Gets my vote.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

I think in the end, I'd rather fiddle than talk about it.

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There are times when fiddling just doesn't feel good, but I do enjoy chatting about fiddling and all the myriad aspects of it, especially in a teaching environment.  Some days, with my hearing, the weather/humidity, my quality of sleep, my interest in varying tunes, fiddling is emotionally painful and disappointing.  Talking about it is never so, though I suppose sometimes it can get boring if not diverse enough.

Referring to the Opening Post.. The reason so many banjo player don't sound all that good ....is because they are on the Banjo Hangout.. trying to get kudos.. from other banjo players who are also trying to get kudos from other Hangout members... Really good/creative/original banjo players don't need permission to be who they are and therefore are often not on the Hangout.....too busy BEING banjo players.. As for me, I'm a wannabe...still plugging away on my banjo with NO regard for the Hangout.. I was on when I was making banjos..learned a lot.. but since then... no need.

We have some eminent members on the hangout, of course they hardly post, they're too busy practising.

The forums just fine, no need for extra category's, they all fit under 'playing advice' or 'music theory'.

There is a 'search box' for 'all topics'.

I saw this short film recently and it immediately made me think about this discussion:

vimeo.com/1097519458?autoplay=...6ZmFsc2V9

Spoiler alert: don’t read the rest of this yet if you don’t want to ruin the plot.


Are we just wasting time trying to pretend that the genre is still alive by stuffing it like a taxidermist and trying to contort it into something that approximates real life? The therapy session with the parents trying to come up with the right terminology to simply say “our cat died” is so similar to the endless discussions about what constitutes Old Time, with it so often, just as the therapy session, leading nowhere, and I can’t stop comparing the therapist’s policing of the words to some posts I’ve seen where it’s almost as though the words needed to recognize Old Time are off limits.

Is it time to build a pyre, douse Old Time with gasoline, strike a match, and say goodbye to it?

I hate to admit it, but every time I attend an Old Time jam, I can't escape the feeling that the spirit of the music itself is gone. I enjoy playing with the other players and picking up new tunes with which I'm not so familiar, but there's always something important missing. Every time I attend I hope that it'll be the occasion  that the group finds the proverbial groove and forms a link with the spirit of the music, almost as if it's some version of a seance. I consider myself fortunate to have had a good number of musical experiences in my lifetime that were soul-stirring. I'd like to believe there might be a possibility of that happening with Old Time, but maybe I'm just holding a dead cat. 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

I saw this short film recently and it immediately made me think about this discussion:

vimeo.com/1097519458?autoplay=...6ZmFsc2V9

Spoiler alert: don’t read the rest of this yet if you don’t want to ruin the plot.


Are we just wasting time trying to pretend that the genre is still alive by stuffing it like a taxidermist and trying to contort it into something that approximates real life? The therapy session with the parents trying to come up with the right terminology to simply say “our cat died” is so similar to the endless discussions about what constitutes Old Time, with it so often, just as the therapy session, leading nowhere, and I can’t stop comparing the therapist’s policing of the words to some posts I’ve seen where it’s almost as though the words needed to recognize Old Time are off limits.

Is it time to build a pyre, douse Old Time with gasoline, strike a match, and say goodbye to it?

I hate to admit it, but every time I attend an Old Time jam, I can't escape the feeling that the spirit of the music itself is gone. I enjoy playing with the other players and picking up new tunes with which I'm not so familiar, but there's always something important missing. Every time I attend I hope that it'll be the occasion  that the group finds the proverbial groove and forms a link with the spirit of the music, almost as if it's some version of a seance. I consider myself fortunate to have had a good number of musical experiences in my lifetime that were soul-stirring. I'd like to believe there might be a possibility of that happening with Old Time, but maybe I'm just holding a dead cat. 

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This makes me think of a documentary I watched on Netflix last night. It was a celebration of the songwriting genius of Paul McCartney. A studio producer invited several recording artist to help contribute their talent to a compilation of songs that Paul wrote throughout his career. It was a great documentary, with some really great music. But it was them doing Paul McCartney songs - that Paul (Beatles) made famous. A few of them sounded very similar to the original, and a few of them were not even close - but none of them sounded exactly like Paul or the Beatles. 

And I can remember reading about how - "back in the old days" - the competition for recognition was fierce. No one wanted to sound like someone else. In fact - one story told was about how fiddlers would claim that this "new tune" the were playing (wrote) was an old / lost tune they learn from a friend of a long lost relative.  Otherwise, now one else would play it. And I think it is kind of strange for us to talk about how important it is to "find our own style" - and how that can that get reconciled against imitating an old hero. Nothing wrong with either, but what gives?  Are we really trying to be uniquely ourselves while playing tunes just like Tommy Jarrell?

I think we do well to acknowledge where the tunes we play come from / who we learned them from. But I'm just not interested in trying to learn to play a tune "the exact same way" someone else played it. Now - having said that - I do try to replicate what is played on the recording I learn from - I just don't obsess over it. But I will usually learn a tune that has something that appeals to me - usually a phrase that is unique or sounds challenging. (I want to learn how to play that)

We do seem to come back to this place from time to time, don't we. Therapy of sorts I guess.  Worth repeating?

I agree with the idea that playing the music is the therapy - not the preserving of anything dying or dead. Especially with like minded friends. I too look forward to the occasions when it becomes magic. It still happens. I'm grateful for the chance to be there when it does.