I'm always surprised how quality is translated to dollars as if that's all there is to it. I'd recommend playing violins in any price range up to the most you can afford. Try not to judge them by their price. It would be better not to know it if you could. Take along a more experienced player when you shop. Market value isn't the only indicator.

I buy all my fiddles (16) on line. Just bought myself a 16.25” contralto viola this morning for $800 which will end up costing $1200 under the chin. From China of course.

He's right (your teacher). But i would say "have to" spend 1500 dollars rather "need to" spend 1500 dollars. its easy to convince yourself you need something. Not so easy to "have to" get by with an instrument you "know" you have outgrown.

Back the truck up.
How many fiddles, other than your own have you played?
I don't have a magic number but start by playing other fiddles. Cheap and or expensive. Just test. Play with as many bows as you can too.

It can cost a bunch of money to fall in love with something/anything that isn't what you have presently. If you can, bring your present rig with you when you test/taste.

Some places are just like guitar center - ask to see a fiddle and you try it, regardless of price. And some you make a reservation to try a specific fiddle, and I suppose there's every thing in between those 2 extremes. Last time I was shopping for fiddles was in Hong Kong and I was trying all levels of violins, from $1000 to $30K. Behind glass and you asked to see them but they did not really seem to care (after they saw I could play).

"Rent to own" is pretty good, if you have a craving for a better fiddle/violin! It somehow hurts less to pay it over the course of year, than one big chunk all at once....

Generally all the places I've ever shopped ask for a price range, and any other criteria, ask you to set up an appointment, and they'll have 5-6 instruments in that range ready for you to play around with in a soundproof little room. (Tuned and ready to try)

The other thing is that sometimes you think you need a better fiddle/violin - but sometimes you just need a better bow, or better technique...or a bow rehair...or a string change...so an instrument upgrade isn't everything :-). Although I wouldn't mind having $10K to drop on my next one! :-D

( edit to add: Although if playing a lot in pubs or outdoors, it's probably better NOT to go up into that price range! Too stressful! Like, you don't want to have to carry your fiddle to the restroom with ya.... )

I find fiddle shopping intimidating to the point that I very seldom even go into a violin shop. Even sampling the wares at a festival table is uncomfortable for me. Somehow I don't mind showing my weaknesses on guitar or mandolin. I even fiddle in public occasionally with no problems, but when I pick up a bow to try out a fiddle I feel like I'm auditioning for Juilliard!

Beyond the stage fright and my limited tone-production abilities, there are so many variables in violin sound. Bow, setup, strings, humidity, phase of the moon... The difference in sound under your ear vs across the room means it's absolutely necessary to have someone else who's at least competent play for you.  Also, what you're looking for might be very different from the next guy's preferences.

I went to Royce Burt's house in FL a few years ago to drop off a fiddle for regraduation work. When I arrived, Royce had 15-20 fiddles laid out in his living room for me to try (the dude is a salesman ).  All were very nice, but none just grabbed me and made me want to part with the $$$ for an instrument that I didn't need.  As I was leaving, he said that he had one old fiddle in a closet that didn't sound like any of the others.  It was kinda ugly and he didn't much care for the tone, but I could give it a try.  That one is now my go-to fiddle for OT music.
 

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Originally posted by farmerjones

Back the truck up.
How many fiddles, other than your own have you played?
I don't have a magic number but start by playing other fiddles. Cheap and or expensive. Just test. Play with as many bows as you can too.

It can cost a bunch of money to fall in love with something/anything that isn't what you have presently. If you can, bring your present rig with you when you test/taste.

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It's a chicken in the egg thing. How does when get many fiddles to play without trying them in stores?  I'd love to try a dozen fiddles in various price ranges just like I did with mandolins.  No idea how that is accomplished.  

I would expect any violin store or sales department to allow me to try the merchandise. I'd just say, I'd like to give that one a try ....

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Originally posted by learn2turn

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Originally posted by farmerjones

Back the truck up.
How many fiddles, other than your own have you played?
I don't have a magic number but start by playing other fiddles. Cheap and or expensive. Just test. Play with as many bows as you can too.

It can cost a bunch of money to fall in love with something/anything that isn't what you have presently. If you can, bring your present rig with you when you test/taste.

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It's a chicken in the egg thing. How does when get many fiddles to play without trying them in stores?  I'd love to try a dozen fiddles in various price ranges just like I did with mandolins.  No idea how that is accomplished.  

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Find out where all the kids are getting their rentals. Make friends with this person(s). My guy used to have one or two cherries from his rental fleet he'd keep back if he knew someone was on the hunt. 

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It's a chicken in the egg thing. How does when get many fiddles to play without trying them in stores?  I'd love to try a dozen fiddles in various price ranges just like I did with mandolins.  No idea how that is accomplished.  

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Most sizable fiddle contests in the south feature vendor tables filled with fiddles from $150 to several thousand dollars.  These vendors show up at larger bluegrass festivals and old-time events as well.  Maybe try out the New England Folk Festival, Grey Fox or Podunk bluegrass festivals.  I haven't been to an event further north than Gettysburg, but I'm sure someone could steer you toward one with instrument vendors.  Or just head out for one or two.  The worst you could leave with is a good time.

There’s a lot to unpack here.

Was it a music store or a violin shop? The type of business can make a considerable difference in how they handle sales inquiries.

If it’s a music store that sells a wider variety of instruments, the staff is less likely to have specific knowledge about violins and will typically just go by price alone to make any suggestions because that’s the easiest way to make a recommendation. If you are able to evaluate instruments well enough in your own, that can still work decently, you just have to provide a budget that reflects your top limit. Music stores tend to have high turnover rates in the front-end staff, so it’s the luck of the draw when you go in cold.

If it’s a violin shop, the odds of specific knowledge and the quality of the selections increase. If the shop is primarily a rental business, the staff that works the front counter will often be more like that of a music store. The management will be more knowledgeable, and if there is a luthier on staff, the luthier will have a more nuanced understanding. A rental business will recommend rental to you until you’re looking beyond the price range of a rental outfit—it just doesn’t make sense to the business to lose out on possible rental income, which is regular and keeps you a customer over a sustained period vs. a one-time buyer they may never see again (unless you trade or return, two things they really don’t want to happen).

If the shop does more retail and it’s a larger shop, they will probably have a dedicated salesman who plays and can guide you. This person should have an intimate knowledge of the inventory as well as a good general knowledge of violins. If you have a conversation with this person and explain your realistic budget as well as what you want tonally and aesthetically, it will help to choose instruments for you that make sense. Some salesmen are great, some are more like greasy used car salesmen who are just trying to unload lemons on unsuspecting customers. This is why the reputation of the shop is important. If players have been burned there, you may be as well. This can be difficult to evaluate, because online reviews are often fake, full of empty and uninformative praise, or written by people who didn’t read the paperwork and are now angry that they’re held to the terms of a contract instead of the terms they’d rather have.

If the shop is retail-focused and has a small staff, the shop will often have a small but knowledgeable staff. Selection may not be as wide, although this is not always the case. The smaller the business, the more likely you’ll be able to work with its owner.

If the shop is repair-focused, it may have a selection of instruments available for purchase or it may not. There’s less chance of a salesman in that scenario, and most businesses are much smaller. A good luthier will have very specific knowledge. The only limitation is that time spent away from the bench is a loss of income, so there may be less time for the luthier to sit with you through the process. This isn’t an issue if you know what you want or if you can tell what you do and don’t like without any assistance.

It’s important to remember that shops have to take care of their inventory, which means they have to be somewhat careful about handing instruments out. When you look at violins, some belong to the shop, but many may be consignments. If a player takes a corner off a pristine violin, the owner will not be happy about it and will be likely to hold the shop accountable for it. It’s already a bit of a risk to send a violin out with a customer for a week on trial, so it’s important to make sure there’s a good chance it will come back intact or at all. As a violin is played more, it will eventually need new strings, cleaning, and adjustment. These things are often out-of-pocket expenses for a shop. You wouldn’t believe some of the things that happen in sales appointments or on trials. If a violin gets abused by a player who doesn’t buy it, it might end up out of commission when the right one shows up. Either the good instruments have to be kept under lock and key where you can’t see them until they’re brought out for you or the shop has to do a bit of screening to gauge seriousness. There are lots of stories (even one in this thread) about trying a nice violin in a shop. Although that’s a nice reminiscence for the person telling the story, it isn’t so great for the shop that spent however long showing instruments, only to have the customer walk out with nothing. Shops lose a lot of money showing violins. The owner of the last shop where I worked told me he had calculated that his time was worth about $400 an hour. He did everything he could to cut down on time spent in showing violins because every hour he spent doing so cost him $400 and prevented him from shipping at least one instrument out to a shop that had already placed an order. He would often say something along the lines of “People don’t realize how much it costs me to chat with them.” This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go in to a shop or that it’s just a high speed business deal (although those exist in some places), just that it’s important to understand a shop’s reticence to pull everything out to show. It’s a matter of practicality and care for the instruments, not a judgment against the potential buyer.

I always recommend calling a shop before going. This isn’t always necessary, but many shops are appointment-only. It helps the shop to talk to you first to get to know what you seek and what range interests you. That way the shop has some lead time to get things ready for you. Think of it this way: if a shop hears that you want a $2000 old German, they can go through their inventory and perhaps find a couple that have been waiting for a setup so that they can put them into the mix when you arrive. If you show up cold, they have to show you whatever is ready at the moment, and you may miss out on a gem. As you develop a relationship with a shop, they will know better what you like and may keep you in mind when something that fits comes in. Calling ahead saves time on both ends because it helps both of you determine whether there is potential for a good outcome. If you do walk in, just be mindful that the shop may also have appointments going on with other customers, so they may be juggling to assist you.

The majority of the skilled people in the violin business are there because they are hopelessly obsessed with the violin, not because they have a hope of making any money. If you are serious about looking for a violin, having a preliminary conversation with a shop can go a long way. Unlike lawyers or doctors, luthiers don’t typically charge a consultation fee just to see if you can work together.

Be careful with rent to own. I rented a sax once where the rental cost would be removed knocked off the price should I decide to buy. When it came time to purchase, after only a few months, the rental was knocked off of list price so I would be paying more than the selling price of that horn in that store!!! I walked and never went back. Not sure if the violin world is the same.

Some information from my experience that might be helpful. I have two violins and used them both equally for the first years of learning and knew they sounded different but would not have said that one was better than the other. At a certain point in my learning, after getting significantly better, I noticed that the one was much clearer and easier to get sound out of on the lower two strings. I asked an educated musician (Masters in music at the University level) if what I was noticing was accurate and was that a way to determine if it was a better instrument or not. He said that what I experienced was accurate and that it was the sign of a better instrument. Also, that when I got better yet I would be able to tell a good violin not only by the improvement in sound on the lower two strings but I would notice the difference in the sound on the top two strings also. Would add that difference I was noticing was very evident and not something I had to guess about.

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Originally posted by Highlonesomef5

Be careful with rent to own. I rented a sax once where the rental cost would be removed knocked off the price should I decide to buy. When it came time to purchase, after only a few months, the rental was knocked off of list price so I would be paying more than the selling price of that horn in that store!!! I walked and never went back. Not sure if the violin world is the same.

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Rental programs tend to be one of two styles: rent-to-own or rental credit. In the former, you pay monthly rental until you've paid off the retail price of the outfit. Then you own the instrument outright. If you decide to upgrade before purchasing your first instrument, you can switch to a different one and just adjust the payment schedule accordingly. If you've paid off the rental, you can trade the instrument toward an upgraded one. Rent-to-own is more common with chain stores or shops with larger rental fleets. 
 

The latter program is set up so that you pay a monthly fee based on the instrument you're using. With each payment you accrue some credit. There's a cutoff (often at 50% of the value of an outfit) where you can no longer accumulate credit, although you can rent as long as you choose. Once you've maxed out your rental credit, you can apply it toward purchase of any instrument that's available to you for purchase. That way, if you want a different instrument or a new one, you don't have to deal with a trade. A lot of first time buyers like to purchase a brand new outfit with their rental credit, so this is popular. Smaller shops are more likely to do this, especially if they have higher quality rentals that they maintain.

In either case, there's usually an optional maintenance plan that covers accidental damage. Some plans cover strings and rehairs, some don't. They're mainly designed to cover you in case of a serious accident (those happen all the time with rentals, especially the ones that are taken into public schools). The cost of a rental and a maintenance plan tend to be more attractive to parents of younger students who are also paying for several other activities and need to budget for equipment fees.

Either rental plan can work well. The terms are usually laid out clearly in the rental contract, and most are boilerplate. You may want to read carefully what is not covered (often negligence or theft with no police report filed) so you understand that there are some cases where you may be on the hook for a loss.

Shops need to be able to make something when they sell violins, so they may set limits on what your credit can cover, but that's pretty reasonable. The rental fee gives you access to a full outfit that should be decent quality as much as you want every month, so the credit program is a perk that rewards you for coming back to the shop to buy instead of going to Amazon, eBay, or elsewhere online.

I haven't encountered a violin rental business that would charge more than retail for a used rental. That sounds odd, and if a place was indeed doing that kind of thing, I would stay far away.