I honestly think there’s a lot of truth in this. I’ve played the same fiddle for years, and the more time I spend with it, the more I understand how it wants to respond. A better instrument can help, of course, but learning how to really work with the bow and draw sound from what you already have is probably the bigger part of the journey.

Sometimes I think it’s a bit like cooking. You keep adjusting the ingredients ,cooking times, temperatures and so on to get the taste and texture that you’re after. So it’s the bowing, the phrasing, timing the type of strings and so on. Today I decided to try playing my tenor tuned up a semitone and boy what a difference, talk about alive! It felt like the fiddle was taking me for a ride. A bit like letting a dog off the Leed. Now it’s back on the leash and I don’t want to go back to regular old GDAE.

As a 2 year in new player I often wonder “is it me (my skill level) or the instrument” why my playing sounds the way it does. When I ask my teacher to play my fiddle it sounds pretty good; nice tone. So I have to assume it’s my playing. I then say to myself, “when I can get my skill level to make my current instrument sound pleasing, sound good but feel I can do better with a next level up instrument, only then would I consider looking for another”. My teacher also let me try her bow, a pernambuco bow. Lighter in weight than my heavy carbon fiber student bow. Even for me playing with my teacher's bow on my current instrument, that bow made my playing sound pretty good. So I’m thinking a new bow might be in order.

Well, there is no fast track to fiddling. Time, and money invested well is rewarded in tone and the joy of it. Some of the best advice I have received on fiddling is " when you think you are ready for a new fiddle get a new bow first". That and " a competent set up with a new set of strings go a long way toward sounding better". Play on people, and we will all get more of what we are looking for. R/

True it is more about the bow than most estimate.
There's two elements of the equipment I consider:
Sure tone, and all the elements that make up tone.
Then there's comfort and playability. You won't play well if it doesn't "fit" you.

But, alas, it's 99% operator. A 50k hrs. player that plays in an orchestra has a different approach than a 50k hrs. contest player. Or a 50k hrs. Jazz player. Or a 50k player that's been exposed to literally every style of music. That's kinda the reason two players won't ever sound identical. This person's 'better' than that person? Not really a thing.

Tony, I will tri-furcate my response.

Part is the journey every fiddler goes thru, accumulating time and training the muscles, ears and brain.

But part is the fiddle

And part is how you make that particular fiddle sound.

I have one fiddle, very fancy with carvings on the back and all. It took me quite a while to figure out how she likes to be played so it sounds good to me. At first it was very closed an 'tank-y' unitl I learned the above. Brought it to a jam and the leader, very experienced fiddler and music teacher, liked how I made it sound but did not like it when he played it (honest neither did I).

On a recording with John Hartford, Howdy Forrester spoke of early Opry fiddler Oscar Stone's instrument. Loosely quoted, he said, "I never want to say that a man's fiddle has anything to do with his playing...it's the man that plays it...but Oscar Stone had a fiddle that helped him."

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Originally posted by wrench13

Tony, I will tri-furcate my response.

Part is the journey every fiddler goes thru, accumulating time and training the muscles, ears and brain.

But part is the fiddle

And part is how you make that particular fiddle sound.

I have one fiddle, very fancy with carvings on the back and all. It took me quite a while to figure out how she likes to be played so it sounds good to me. At first it was very closed an 'tank-y' unitl I learned the above. Brought it to a jam and the leader, very experienced fiddler and music teacher, liked how I made it sound but did not like it when he played it (honest neither did I).

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"...figure out how she likes to be played so it sounds good to me."   

That is the sum of what I'm pointing to. I don't know about 3 parts.   It works, but we could divide it further, or not at all - and end up with the same.

The last part is where we have to figure things out - "...so it sounds good to me."  I think - when we arrive there - we have developed our ear and muscle memory that has been tuned to the particular fiddle we have.  Depending on how that was worked out in our mind - we can pick up and play a $100k fiddle and it's not really going to make that much difference - in the world of OT / folk.  Everything about our playing (at that point) has been fine tuned to another ____. 

We had a pleasant surprise at our session last night. A good friend came by to join us - while not out "touring".  (Andy Cohen).  Small talk ended up with an invitation to stop by his place this afternoon - to look through his collection of fiddles that he has accumulated through the years - to see if one might "jump out at me".  I'm taking me, my favorite fiddle, and bow.  It will be interesting. 

But - I recall a YouTube video that has been posted here several times where Tommy Jarrell was invited to play a couple of "high end" violins (Stradivarius) to get his impression and hear how it would sound in his hands.  At then end he said he wouldn't trade his fiddle for either one - didn't matter how much they were worth.  Take away what you want from it, but I'm looking in that direction with this idea I'm talking about. 

So, why am I looking? Well, if there is a fiddle that "likes the way I play and is willing to say so..."  I'd be interested in continuing that conversation.   
 

I started with a VSO five years ago. After a year or so I got a real nice Royce Burt rebuilt fiddle so I couldn’t blame my mistakes on poor equipment. It has served me well ever since, and all is good, we are at peace, learning every day.

A good player can make a bad fiddle sound good.
A bad player can make a good fiddle sound bad.

Tony - that excursion sounds like a lot of fun!

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Originally posted by wrench13

A good player can make a bad fiddle sound good.
A bad player can make a good fiddle sound bad.

Tony - that excursion sounds like a lot of fun!

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I agree. If you don't know how to play a violin properly, you can't be expected to get good results--or to be able to appreciate the difference. If someone who is just starting to drive gets into a formula one car and can't figure out how to handle it, it won't be a very exciting performance. If the driver has any awareness, he'll acknowledge that he's in over his head. But if he concludes that the car is not a good car, it displays his ignorance. The same applies to violins. If you play a great violin like a barbarian, of course it isn't going to be impressive.

Strads have a reputation for being extremely sensitive to the bow, and they do not reward heavy-handedness. Players who want to dig in more tend to like Guarneris for their ability to handle the extra pressure. A Strad's sound is said to be coaxed out while a Guarneri's is pulled out. The ornamented Strads at the Smithsonian need a gentler touch to draw out their tone, while the Cannon del Gesu is infamous for being quite difficult to play until you learn how to play it with enough conviction.

Violins do have personalities and quirks, the more so the finer they are. Commercial violins are often a lot easier to play and are much more forgiving, although this often comes with a tradeoff of tone color.

As you play more violins, you develop a sense for their characters and a clearer idea of what you like.

Yes, if you're a good enough player, you can make up for a lot. However, that also means that if you're having to work around a lot of technical issues, it's harder to be focused on the music and its phrasing. Ideally, the instrument is an extension of the player, not an adversary that must be overcome to produce a decent tone. 
 

Many players spend a lifetime searching for a violin that fits. Some are fortunate enough to find one. For those people, the violin is more like a family member than a tool.

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Many players spend a lifetime searching for a violin that fits. Some are fortunate enough to find one. For those people, the violin is more like a family member than a tool.

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This sounds like a bit of myth making, but perhaps it's true. How would us common folks ever know?

So I have a question for you, Rich!

if somebody walks in looking for a “fiddle” vs a “violin”, do you make any differentiation?
LIke do you have a different set of instruments…or is a quality $$$ instrument basically a quality $$$ instrument no matter how you play it, and would make a great fiddle AND a great violin?

For me, I found that with Irish fiddling I like a more mellow soft husky tone (which might be abhorrent to a violinist)…

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Originally posted by NCnotes

So I have a question for you, Rich!

if somebody walks in looking for a “fiddle” vs a “violin”, do you make any differentiation?
LIke do you have a different set of instruments…or is a quality $$$ instrument basically a quality $$$ instrument no matter how you play it, and would make a great fiddle AND a great violin?

For me, I found that with Irish fiddling I like a more mellow soft husky tone (which might be abhorrent to a violinist)…

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Personally, I don't put much stock in making a distinction between "fiddle" and "violin." When someone comes to look at violins, I just ask for a price range so that I can show everything I have that fits the budget of the player. If a fiddler asks for violins in the $5k  to $10k range for example, I show everything that fits that criterion alone. Fiddlers often pick instruments that aren't mellow, dark, or husky. Sometimes they like a deeper, bassier sound, but that's not true across the board. It doesn't help anything to hold back a selection of instruments. Even if the player wants a certain type of sound or look, seeing other things can either open the door for considering something unexpected or help to confirm the choice.

If I know the player and have listened to their playing enough to know how they sound, I may make suggestions as to which instruments I think they might try first, but I don't select anything for the player unless asked to do so. I typically set out everything in the range and tell the player to try them all and let me know if there are any questions.

Sometimes, people will describe old instruments that have been heavily abused and/or poorly repaired as fiddles, with the implication that fiddlers like an instrument that looks like it's had a long life and has probably been played a lot. While I hear this a lot and I do genuinely meet players who like a violin that's had plenty of obvious wear and tear, it's also not a universal thing. Sometimes a player will pick out the newest, cleanest-looking violin even if there's a nice old one that's got a lot of character sitting next to it.

A lot of fiddlers have and have had violins that don't fit the image of the beat-up old trade fiddle, and similarly, a lot of classical players have and have had violins that aren't powerhouses or in a fine state of preservation.

The fiddler from whom I learned the most had a collection of violins. He had a violin made for him as a gift by one of the "big names" in bluegrass fiddle making, but the violin that endured as his favorite was a commercial French violin that was a bit of a cannon.

I'd say that yes, a $$$ quality instrument is a $$$ quality instrument regardless of who's playing it. It's worth $$$ because of its own merits as an instrument even if it isn't being played. Although tone isn't the major determining factor in violin pricing, there is nonetheless an expectation that a violin of a certain price level will have the capability to perform to a minimum standard.

Thanks for the thorough explanation!

That’s the impression I got too…no distinction in shops about “what’s a fiddle vs what’s a violin”….the instruments are sorted primarily by price range…so whether you want to play Paganini or folk tunes, find the one that has the sound and feel you want!

I personally could care less how it looks…mine is somewhat beat up (er, somebody else did the beating up before I got it, of course!).

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

I'd say that yes, a $$$ quality instrument is a $$$ quality instrument regardless of who's playing it. It's worth $$$ because of its own merits as an instrument even if it isn't being played. Although tone isn't the major determining factor in violin pricing, there is nonetheless an expectation that a violin of a certain price level will have the capability to perform to a minimum standard.

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I'm curious how you describe what makes a violin's value, and what "its own merits" means. I am not very experienced in this, I admit. I am aware however that tone is not the major determining factor in pricing. I understand that at major auctions instruments are usually not played or listened to.  Obviously workmanship is a factor. The look of an instrument is of varying interest. What it seems to come down to in a big way is provenance. For someone who is strictly a player and not a collector or dealer it seems to me that provenance shouldn't be especially important. Yet it is. The collectors market drives prices for things from Pez dispensers to baseball cards where there isn't an inherent value, just a market value. I believe there is a strong element of that in fiddle prices. Disabuse me of that notion if you will. I believe people of modest means should be able to find instruments of inherent value and playability for low prices outside of the collector's market , rather than feeling they have to pay many thousands of dollars. Lord knows there are enough violins in enough attics waiting to be played by someone.

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Originally posted by wrench13

A good player can make a bad fiddle sound good.
A bad player can make a good fiddle sound bad.

Tony - that excursion sounds like a lot of fun!

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Well, I've read enough here - and now I've come back from testing some of my theory.

Rich, your right,  There is no accounting for taste. We should expect that what some folks "want" and "like" is always going to be what some other folks will "despise" - for any number of reasons. And they don't really have to be good ones. It's just the way we humans work.

It is best for me to know this about me - I'm not "necessarily" a collector, my fiddle is not an investment (with an expected return), I'm not "necessarily" interested in the way it looks (although I think it can be used as a indicator), how old it is, or where it was made. I'm only interested in the price when it comes to my perceived value of what I'm getting in exchange for the money. I'm motivated by how it sounds under my ear (a bit deceiving), how easy it is to play, is it going to need serious repairs (if yes - is it worth the gamble?).

Not aimed at you Rich - but - I have been in music stores where the rep laid out a number of violins based on my price range only. And I have to say - FOR ME - I did have a slight problem with that. It says to me that - in the stores eyes - making a sale at that target price will maximize this potential sale and that's their only motivation. I won't have a chance to see how satisfied I might be with something in a lower or higher price range - unless I impose myself on them. I have 5 fiddles - some are obviously better than the others. All of them were relatively inexpensive and bought "sight unseen" for far less than 1k - except for my "John Hartford" fiddle. I did pay more than what the fiddle itself is worth - I bought the history and bragging rights. Worth it to me.

Yes. I did bring a fiddle home today.      I'll have it with me until mid June. We haven't even talked a bout price. And yes - It could "kill the deal" - but I know Andy. But - right now - I've got a big smile on my face. I'm taking it to Scott Poole / Mt View this weekend - new strings, a once over, and informed opinion - and then hopefully a group of old time players will be hanging around somewhere. Its an old Schwitzer copy - good shape - and plenty of presence. If I keep it - it's going to teach me how to "back-off" some. lol - we'll see.  Let the "conversation" continue. 

Two separate incidents where two separate merchants got a few more bucks out of me by letting me playing stuff juuuuust a bit out of my budget. One was a bow. One was a violin. OTOH every merchant I've dealt with has had no trouble letting me test drive some very expensive units. Both violins and bows. I'm grateful for the experience. I don't think there was any time where I sought to mortgage my home for a bow or violin. But I still pine for a unit that hung on an old music store wall. It may still be there. I didn't have the money at the time. I think it was only $600. But that d@mb fiddle somehow spoke to me, and I still remember it.
It was a Wilhelm Klier. I think later i found it was one of the Eastman labels. I'll bet that was 30 years ago.

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

I'd say that yes, a $$$ quality instrument is a $$$ quality instrument regardless of who's playing it. It's worth $$$ because of its own merits as an instrument even if it isn't being played. Although tone isn't the major determining factor in violin pricing, there is nonetheless an expectation that a violin of a certain price level will have the capability to perform to a minimum standard.

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I'm curious how you describe what makes a violin's value, and what "its own merits" means. I am not very experienced in this, I admit. I am aware however that tone is not the major determining factor in pricing. I understand that at major auctions instruments are usually not played or listened to.  Obviously workmanship is a factor. The look of an instrument is of varying interest. What it seems to come down to in a big way is provenance. For someone who is strictly a player and not a collector or dealer it seems to me that provenance shouldn't be especially important. Yet it is. The collectors market drives prices for things from Pez dispensers to baseball cards where there isn't an inherent value, just a market value. I believe there is a strong element of that in fiddle prices. Disabuse me of that notion if you will. I believe people of modest means should be able to find instruments of inherent value and playability for low prices outside of the collector's market , rather than feeling they have to pay many thousands of dollars. Lord knows there are enough violins in enough attics waiting to be played by someone.

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This is a hotly debated topic online. As I see it, the market is determined by these factors

1) Region and maker. If it's by a specific maker and clearly shows his hand, this tends to be the most valuable scenario. Workshop is also important, especially if an individual maker's work within the shop can be identified. As an example, a Vuillaume workshop violin will have a value, but if it shows the hand of Nicholas Vuillaume, it will be worth more. If it's sold by the Vuillaume shop but not made by the workshop, it's worth less. Violins made in old Cremona are typically the most valuable because they are so important to the history of the violin and because they have centuries of history being played on stage and then in recordings. As distance geographically and chronologically increases, price generally decreases. 

2. Reputation of the maker. A highly respected maker will have more value than one who's lesser known in the same area. Winners of competitors or makers who have placed violins with major players can command the highest prices. A number of the French makers used to advertise their victories at competitions right on their labels. One of the most sought-after American makers became a star when a violin that he had made went up for auction after a great player died. Another established his reputation by winning competitions all over the world

3. Time period. A violin from a certain era may have value. Region will make a bigger difference, but a violin made during a maker's best years will be worth more than one at the beginning or end typically. Early Strads and late Strads are less exciting to collectors than golden period Strads. Anything from  the 17th or 18th century will have a fair amount of value if it's survived, regardless of region. Of course, the more desirable the region, the higher the value, but age does seem to have some value of its own; violins that can't be identified by maker or region but can at least be roughly dated can still be of interest and relative value.

4. Condition. This one could be argued as even more important, but I place it here because people will still pay for a violin from a major maker if there's been damage. A Strad with a soundpost crack can still be worth at least $10 million if it's from the golden period. The more pristine and closer to the appearance when it came off the workbench, the more valuable. A pristine golden period Strad would probably fetch between $20 and $30 million now, but one that had had its varnish replaced would sell for a lot less. If it had any replaced parts, this would take away a substantial amount of value. The authenticity of the most valuable part would set the overall value and the other parts would add back a small percentage.

5. Provenance. Connection to a famous person adds historical value. If a violin has been used to make landmark recordings, that has a cultural significance. Showing a chain of custody from one notable person to another can make the story more exciting to the potential buyer. It gives the collector an urge to become one of the people in a violin's history. In a sense, it's a way to partake in the excellence of an incredible thing and leave a footnote in history by association. 
 

6. Sound. It's somewhat controversial to even include this on the list, but I do so because a bad sounding violin can get a secret reputation. An otherwise good example that sounds terrible will often be sent overseas to be "buried" if it doesn't have a chance of selling. This way, you don't have to deal with a return or trade and it can sell to someone who will buy purely on reputation and won't care how it sounds. This practice has gone on for decades. It's considered inappropriate to increase price because a violin sounds good (e.g. you aren't supposed to sell a Roth for more because it sounds good, but you can certainly discount if it sounds bad). People who inflate prices on violins based on sound alone are referred to among dealers as pigs because it's seen as a way of taking advantage of a customer to make an artificial profit--once the customer tries to resell the violin, the realistic value comes out and the customer gets burned.

The market is led by collectors because it's just the reality that collectors have the buying power to set the going prices. Players themselves used to have collections of violins, but prices eventually outpaced the means to accomplish this. Now a top player is extremely lucky to be able to purchase one really great violin in a lifetime. At the time that the violin was invented, most of the commissions came from royalty. Over time and with growing popularity, the market grew so that more people could buy their own violins. You can still buy a violin today, but if you want one that was owned by 17th century royalty, you have to have fantastic means to acquire it. Those means just don't come from playing for the majority of players.

For a player, some of these things don't seem relevant or important, but the complication is that if you re-enter the market at any point, these things will have an impact on what you can recoup. If you're making a one-time purchase and think of the violin as a thing to be enjoyed and used up, resale isn't important. It's just that many people end up having multiple violins during their lifetimes or careers. Once you're trying to trade your violin toward the purchase of a new one, all these factors become relevant--at least to the shop if not to you.

I would also qualify all of this by saying that the violin market is complicated by the fact that sound has had a more important place in the past. Stradivari and Guarneri became treasured makers, not just because of Parisian collectors who were courted by Vuillaume, but because of their selection for concertizing by major players like Viotti and Paganini. Before Stradivari, the Amati family was prized for tone. Many of the early violin composers and players had Stainer violins, which were the most sought-after violins in their era, not just because of royalty, but because they were considered acoustically perfect for the music. So tone did matter, and some makers have developed reputations since then for making violins that players really like to hear. The problem there is that sound is subjective, and not only does a certain sound appeal to a certain taste, a maker can be popular for sound and then go out of fashion without changing anything in the making. Makers sometimes get "hot" in an area and then  the bubble bursts and the excitement dies down. If you buy at the peak of a bubble, you may never live to get back what you paid. This is why people like to see a track record that shows value over time--it's safer to bet on a horse that's won a lot of races instead of one that just won for the first time. And for all the praise people will heap on a violin's sound, you won't necessarily find them lining up to buy it or saying such nice things about its tone once you're trying to sell it. A lot of people are eager to find reasons to discount its value so they can make an argument that they should pay less. This is where condition really makes a big difference. 

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Many players spend a lifetime searching for a violin that fits. Some are fortunate enough to find one. For those people, the violin is more like a family member than a tool.

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This sounds like a bit of myth making, but perhaps it's true. How would us common folks ever know?

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Same thing can be said about a guitar. I've played dozens of the same model of guitar and one just felt better than the rest by a mile, even though they were all very fine instruments.  There are subtle variations in each instrument, fiddle, guitar, whistle, flute, and even if they look the same those variations can matter.

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Many players spend a lifetime searching for a violin that fits. Some are fortunate enough to find one. For those people, the violin is more like a family member than a tool.

---

This sounds like a bit of myth making, but perhaps it's true. How would us common folks ever know?

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Same thing can be said about a guitar. I've played dozens of the same model of guitar and one just felt better than the rest by a mile, even though they were all very fine instruments.  There are subtle variations in each instrument, fiddle, guitar, whistle, flute, and even if they look the same those variations can matter.

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And I would bet - if you invited a dozen folks to come in and play a dozen "instruments" (same model) - laid them out for evaluation - and all 12 players played the 12 instruments, isolated from the other players  - I doubt very seriously those dozen players would all pick the same instrument as the best. 

edit to add - and I bet that if you did it again a month later (or maybe a week later) - same players and instruments - most would probably pick a different instrument the next time around. 

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Originally posted by tonyelder

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Many players spend a lifetime searching for a violin that fits. Some are fortunate enough to find one. For those people, the violin is more like a family member than a tool.

---

This sounds like a bit of myth making, but perhaps it's true. How would us common folks ever know?

---

Same thing can be said about a guitar. I've played dozens of the same model of guitar and one just felt better than the rest by a mile, even though they were all very fine instruments.  There are subtle variations in each instrument, fiddle, guitar, whistle, flute, and even if they look the same those variations can matter.

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And I would bet - if you invited a dozen folks to come in and play a dozen "instruments" (same model) - laid them out for evaluation - and all 12 players played the 12 instruments, isolated from the other players  - I doubt very seriously those dozen players would all pick the same instrument as the best. 

edit to add - and I bet that if you did it again a month later (or maybe a week later) - same players and instruments - most would probably pick a different instrument the next time around. 

 

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I would say the odds are that a player would consistently choose the same instrument each time but would occasionally choose a different one. 

Also, I think it depends on how similar the instruments are to each other. Particularly unique sounding fiddles would likely consistently appeal or repel.

ok - I don't know why I think it would be important for me to qualify what I said but here goes:

This was my point - it would be 12 players (doesn't really matter who they are or what music they play) - and it would be 12 "instruments" that would be matched / identical in make, model, and appearance and condition (ie - 12 new Martin D-18s / natural finish) so it would be difficult to tell them apart by sight.  I think that was what Billy was pretty much saying,. "I've played dozens of the same model of guitar..."

I did say "most" - not all.

So, I think we are describing something differently while talking about the same thing / glass half empty or half full.

...anyway.  

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Originally posted by tonyelder

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Originally posted by ChickenMan

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian Wood

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

Many players spend a lifetime searching for a violin that fits. Some are fortunate enough to find one. For those people, the violin is more like a family member than a tool.

---

This sounds like a bit of myth making, but perhaps it's true. How would us common folks ever know?

---

Same thing can be said about a guitar. I've played dozens of the same model of guitar and one just felt better than the rest by a mile, even though they were all very fine instruments.  There are subtle variations in each instrument, fiddle, guitar, whistle, flute, and even if they look the same those variations can matter.

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And I would bet - if you invited a dozen folks to come in and play a dozen "instruments" (same model) - laid them out for evaluation - and all 12 players played the 12 instruments, isolated from the other players  - I doubt very seriously those dozen players would all pick the same instrument as the best. 

edit to add - and I bet that if you did it again a month later (or maybe a week later) - same players and instruments - most would probably pick a different instrument the next time around. 

 

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Of course if you ask a dozen players to play a dozen aesthetically identical instruments and then rank them you'll get differing opinions. But that's a deliberately subjective setup and it erases the most important data: where opinions ARE consistent. Perhaps you would have as many as a dozen different favorites among the group, but there might actually be some similarities in observations about some of them. If, for example, one is especially bright, the majority of players are likely to agree about it, but if you only ask "Which one do you like best?" you miss out on that information.

Anyone who sells violins knows that customer feedback is important. If a number of customers are saying the same thing about a violin independently, that's as close to objectivity as you can ever come, and unlike your thought experiment, this is a real-world scenario that happens regularly.

When a dealer comes to a shop to sell violins above the entry level, it's fairly common to have someone designated to try all the violins out, even among the same model. The violins selected by that person are purchased and the rest go back into the van to be offered to the next shop on the list. When this selection process occurs, the shop relies on one opinion to make the selections, but that opinion is only valid if it represents a realistic gauge of the clientele--in other words, that person isn't really choosing for himself but for the players he expects to buy each violin. If that person makes selections that don't lead to sales reliably enough, someone else will get the job. When you find someone who knows the market well, it can be well worth it to send that person abroad to find violins. There is someone just like that in my area, and he's been making trips for customers for decades. His knowledge of violins and ability to match them with players is so impressive that he always has someone ready to pay his airfare and he is trusted to make decisions on high end instruments.

Back in the glory days of a shop where I used to work, dealers used to bring in cases full of Vuillaumes and lay them out for the shop to try. In that day, Vuillaumes weren't as expensive and shops were pickier with them. If any didn't sound good enough or weren't pretty enough, they got sent back. These days, it's a highlight in your career to have one regardless of condition.

 But back to the 12x12 idea, it might be interesting to set up something like it with instruments as identical as possible. That would need to include setup and strings as well as the bow used. As I said before, I don't think ranking them would be nearly as informative as getting descriptions of each one's tone. Doing it that way might provide some useful information, although it would be easy to nitpick it to death (is every soundpost fitting PERFECTLY? Is every bridge carved EXACTLY the same way? Is the projection the same on all 12 of them?).