I'm sure most all of us have had to have a bow re-haired. I've had several through the years.
Unless I was mis-informed about a few issues I've had through the years, there is a few things that I've learned about the different grades, types. color, methods used to install.
I used to go through hairs pretty quick, so... on a few occasions, I thought it would be wise to learn how to do this for myself. But I don't need it as often now - so - no more than what I would need to do it, I would never get enough experience to "master" the art. And I have found a good luthier that I trust.
Reason for the post here: I'd like to hear what you have learned through the years - about all of those things we should know to get the best hair to compliment how we fiddle.
I'll save mine for a little later. I'd rather hear some things first. Please...
It's a skill I have considered learning, since I build and repair fiddles. But I don't go through bow hair very fast at all. I play on relatively inexpensive carbon fiber bows (Fiddlerman), and when necessary have just bought a new bow which might only be slightly more than the cost of a good re-hair. Over time I've given up on learning re-hairing because what I've read about it makes it sound like a hassle.
I thought I'd teach myself with a few inconsequential bows I possessed. Only to find out from an actual technician, that there are bows that are so inconsequential that they are not meant to be repaired.
That information sank in to the point where I decided to concentrate on being more of the fiddle player and less a fiddle technician. Not that I won't make small adjustments and repairs, but I draw a measured line.
I haven't the foggiest idea when I last haired one of my bows. I treat my bows and their hair nicely and they seem to last. Yeah, I know I'd already moved from L.A. to Hawaii, but other than that I don't think about it much. It doesn't hurt much either that I have three bows.
OK. time to steer the direction towards what I am really kind of aiming for...
As I said in the OP -I no longer have any interest in learning to re-hair a bow. I guess I could have left that part out, except it adds some background to my questions. At one time, I was really going through the hairs. When I asked (and sometimes when I didn't...
) - the common response was - "it's you, you need to learn to bow with an easier hold and less pressure." OK. I understood that. And lightening up on those did make a difference.
But then after one re-hair - later on - it was back to breaking hairs - rather quickly. So this time I asked the luthier that did the work. His explanation was that he thought I had asked for a certain kind of hair that would be selected by orchestral violinist. It was thinner, so you would get a re-hair job with more hairs (count). That would be good for more tone and volume. Well, I asked what my alternatives would be for someone like me - used to bowing with too much pressure. He said he could supply a lower quality with thicker hair, less prone to breaking. So, when I came back for more work - I always asked for that. No questions.
Later luthiers (after moving from Alaska) I used never asked - and i never requested. But it didn't seem to matter. Maybe my Alaska luthier just "used a line" to satisfy my complaint.
Now over the past few years - I have had a few bows re-haired by Scott Poole in Mt View. I'm very pleased with his work. I still break hairs, but usually it is after I've used the bow a while. Normal wear and my heavy hand. (I like the way I play, so... I'll live with the "problem" - thanks)
I've got to know Scott and Shea fairly well - played with them a number of times (great OT musicians). I recently had a bow re-haired. I picked it up this past weekend. But - he had made a recommendation to me (knowing how I play). He said that black hair was becoming more popular among the OT fiddlers - not as a fashion statement, but because the hair was thicker and more coarse - with a better "bite" on the strings. And most of the fiddlers who switched said they like the tone it produced.
So, that is what I asked for. I figured if I didn't like it, easy enough to go back later. So, I am interested in what others have asked for - or if they understand the differences - had a preference - and why. Have you ever had a discussion with anyone / your luthier / about those kinds of choices?
Edited by - tonyelder on 05/10/2026 13:30:18
I've bought a few bows that needed hair, and maybe had one bow rehaired (I seldom break hairs and try to keep things clean). I just took them to my luthier and asked him to fill them. Never discussed anything else, but he knew how I play. My trusted luthier unfortunately passed away a few years ago, so I don't know what I'll do next time I need a rehair. But I'm not playing much these days, and not shopping for bows either.
I think black hair sometimes was preferred by bass players. Rich would know the market.
Edited by - DougD on 05/10/2026 14:02:47
Hopefully he will chime in.
I used to go thru bow hair like crazy for like 5 or so years. My luthier at the time, one who serviced the mid-Hudson Philharmonic, used to ask me if I ate the hairs. I earned to not lean on it so much and that tapered off. I;ve used maybe a 1/2 dozen different luthiers over the years and I cant say one was either better or worse. All seemed pretty competent, from what I saw, as far as rehairing bows. I remember one talking about Mongolian hair but that was ages ago and I don't recall the conversation.
sorry - this will be long. But - for those interested, this is the response I get from copilot (ms AI):
Short answer: Yes — bow hair absolutely comes in different grades, textures, and colors, and those differences do translate into real, mechanical differences in bite, coarseness, elasticity, and noise floor. Black hair is indeed coarser and grabbier than white hair, and there are multiple intermediate grades as well. munistrings.com
Below is a forensic, mechanically structured breakdown — exactly the kind of analysis you prefer — with clear distinctions, functional consequences, and what a player should actually feel under the bow.
Color correlates strongly with texture.
Bow hair is sorted by diameter, texture, elasticity, and uniformity. These are not marketing terms — they are physical properties that affect how the hair grips the string.
High?end shops hand?sort hair multiple times to ensure uniformity.
munistrings.com
Your suspicion is correct:
Black hair is more coarse, thicker, and has more bite.
This is why bass players love it — and why violinists rarely do.
If you’re sensitive to bow response (and you are), you’ll feel:
Hair comes in quite a variety. The most commonly used is white hair. There are other colors, just as horses have different colored tails. That being said, hair of each type behaves differently.
The highest quality white hair is stallion hair collected in Mongolia or Siberia. Mare’s hair is sometimes available, but it tends to be much more yellow from urine staining. There are other kinds of white hair, but they don’t seem to work as well. After a tail is cut, it’s gently washed to remove dirt and oils. It’s then sorted out by various companies. A bundle of unsorted hair will have a lot of waste, so if you’re buying premium hair, a significant part of its price is the amount of sorting it goes through so you don’t have to waste much. Good hair is pretty uniform in diameter and has a certain amount of elasticity in it.
Some white hair is thinner (I’ve tried some from a supplier that was noticeably thinner and came at a premium, but I wasn’t very happy with it and have never bought a bundle). Some hair is thicker and coarser. Not all white hair is the same, so being selective is important. I have a supplier that I’ve been using for years after trying a few others. I would hate to buy my hair anywhere else.
There is chestnut hair, which is a light brown and is a little coarser than average white hair. I’ve seen it marketed as “fiddler’s hair.” I’ve never actually had a fiddler request it, but I put the sample hank I was sent in a bow for a customer who was interested in trying something for novelty. I don’t buy it because there’s no demand among my clientele for it. I don’t see much difference between it and coarser white hair except in the color.
There is black hair, a type that’s occasionally used by bass players or some fiddlers who feel it will give more grip. It’s a lot cheaper than white hair, and some of this is because it’s often not sorted very carefully, so you end up with a lot of bad hairs. Some bass players like it, many abhor it. Most of my bass bow customers use white hair.
Then there is what’s called “salt and pepper,” which is a mix of black and white. It’s intended to provide the benefits of both types. It’s sometimes requested by bass players, cellists, or the odd fiddler. I’ve had a bundle of it for about 10 years now and still have a lot left.
I think the marketing for the hair can be a bit misleading, because it makes it sound as though coarse hair grips the string more. But that’s not how it works. The hair has a scale pattern on it when viewed under a microscope, but those scales are too small to actually grab the string itself and produce a tone. Instead, the scales pick up rosin and hold it in the interstices so that as the bow is drawn across the strings, friction will heat the rosin to the point where it will stick and make the string snap over and over. If the hair has more surface area from its thicker diameter, it may theoretically hold a bit more rosin and give the feeling of more grip similar to adding more rosin to regular white hair.
But bass players don’t need thicker hair to play. While some choose it, most use the same white hair that goes into violin bows without any issues. The quality of the hair itself makes the biggest difference. The rest is advertising.
Another thing to be aware of is that to get the hair extra white, some resellers will bleach it. This does indeed make it more white, but it ruins the hair by making it brittle. Bleached hair is disappointing for both the rehairer and the player.
Some rehairers offer different grades of hair. I don’t do so because for me consistency is crucial, and bad hair is much harder to work with and much harder to predict. I use the best hair I can obtain and put it in every bow unless salt and pepper is requested. Having good hair makes troubleshooting easier with bows.
Hair lasts fairly long, but its lifespan is limited. Even if hair isn’t used at all, it ages and gets brittle over time. There are collector’s bows that have their original hair, but these bows aren’t played (it’s like keeping a toy in its original packaging to keep it as close to the way it came out of the factory as possible). If you’re using the bow regularly, the hair wears out. The strand becomes smoother with use and stops holding rosin as well and it can stretch out and lose elasticity like an old rubber band. The difference between worn-out and fresh hair can be startling. This is why having bows rehaired periodically is so important—even if hair hasn’t broken out, it is still undergoing change with time and needs to be replaced if you want to get the most out of the bow. Worn out hair or a bad rehair will make a bow feel dead or like it’s fighting against you.
learn something new every day!
quote:
Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulHair comes in quite a variety. The most commonly used is white hair. There are other colors, just as horses have different colored tails. That being said, hair of each type behaves differently.
Thanks for the insights Rich!
quote:
Originally posted by tonyelderquote:
Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulHair comes in quite a variety. The most commonly used is white hair. There are other colors, just as horses have different colored tails. That being said, hair of each type behaves differently.
Thanks for the insights Rich!
Tony, Buddy. You have to think outside the box like I do..If I'm losing to many hairs I can do one of two things.. 1. Take hair from a know bad bow, superglue a bundle about 20 strands to the tip of the bow and to the frog. Put this new hair on top of the old....Problem solved. 2. since bow hair is just horse tail, you can do the same superglue technique using High Strength carpet thread.. you get to pick the color....I hate to have to step in on these conversations but I see a struggle going on. 
quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaverquote:
Originally posted by tonyelderquote:
Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulHair comes in quite a variety. The most commonly used is white hair. There are other colors, just as horses have different colored tails. That being said, hair of each type behaves differently.
Thanks for the insights Rich!
Tony, Buddy. You have to think outside the box like I do..If I'm losing to many hairs I can do one of two things.. 1. Take hair from a know bad bow, superglue a bundle about 20 strands to the tip of the bow and to the frog. Put this new hair on top of the old....Problem solved. 2. since bow hair is just horse tail, you can do the same superglue technique using High Strength carpet thread.. you get to pick the color....I hate to have to step in on these conversations but I see a struggle going on.
I guess that's one way to do a hair transplant!
I knew a couple of old fiddlers/back porch luthiers who rehaired and played with monofilament fishing line; 1 or 2-lb test, I think. I can't imagine that working at all, but it did.
quote:
Originally posted by bacfireI knew a couple of old fiddlers/back porch luthiers who rehaired and played with monofilament fishing line; 1 or 2-lb test, I think. I can't imagine that working at all, but it did.
That's what an Incredibow has.
quote:
Originally posted by bacfireI knew a couple of old fiddlers/back porch luthiers who rehaired and played with monofilament fishing line; 1 or 2-lb test, I think. I can't imagine that working at all, but it did.
When, over the years you see hundreds of terrible DIY repair to violins..Without skilled people around fiddlers did whatever they thought might work..
5-10 years ago, my luthier passed my bow along to a well-known and well-liked local fiddler to re-hair. When I got the bow back, the new hairs kept breaking, till before long I had to get it re-haired again (by someone else). I didn't know why; my luthier didn't know why; and the well-known and well-liked local fiddler didn't know why. End of story.
Back in 1979 BC (before computers) I broke my first bow while pushing a dog away.. Elmer's Glue...The bow held up for another 20 years..Then my constant playing wore out the winding...Thread and glue.......I found a book on rehairing and did a miserable job. I then, had No resources to get things done...Now, 45 years later, I've learned to make do a 'presentable' bow rehair..I can talk intelligently about it, sort of, but my advice to others is to either buy a new bow or go to a luthier.....I'm gittin' to old for this stuff.. I have busking to do!!
Why can't they design a bow upon which there are hooks on each end..no knot needed..The replacement will come in such a length that all you have to do is hook it on top, hook it on the bottom..and there ay go..
quote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaver
Why can't they design a bow upon which there are hooks on each end..no knot needed..The replacement will come in such a length that all you have to do is hook it on top, hook it on the bottom..and there ay go..
Villaume developed a "self-rehairing" violin bow that allowed pre-made hanks of hair that had cylindrical brass plugs at the ends to be installed. If you had one it the bows, you could just buy the replacement hanks and install them yourself. More recently Gilles Nehr came up with a radical bow design that was supposed to make rehairing much simpler.
In both cases, the designs got some attention when they were new but didn't really take off. It's hard to find a Vuillaume self-rehairing bow now that hasn't been modified for traditional rehairing. The theory sounds nice, but the amount of detail that goes into a proper rehair makes it much more difficult to develop something that will reliably work well than to just have a professional do it.
Similarly, there have been attempts to make bridges and soundposts that don't require skill to fit, but they have instead proven the value of skilled work.
FWIW - the last re-hair work was done with black hair. Like I said - it was recommended. I have been using it for about a week now.
It definitely grips the strings more than my other bows. BUT - my other bows could be at a stage where they need to be re-haired (from age). The hair is also a bit more "noisy" - I suppose, because it has more bite.
It is making me more conscience of the "noise" - and giving me reason to want better control. I don't mind some of it - but I don't want it all the time.
I'm anxious to see if it ever smooths out.
First impression - I like it.
Edited by - tonyelder on 05/12/2026 07:29:29
quote:
Originally posted by The Violin Beautifulquote:
Originally posted by TuneWeaverquote:
Originally posted by tonyelderquote:
Originally posted by The Violin BeautifulHair comes in quite a variety. The most commonly used is white hair. There are other colors, just as horses have different colored tails. That being said, hair of each type behaves differently.
Thanks for the insights Rich!
Tony, Buddy. You have to think outside the box like I do..If I'm losing to many hairs I can do one of two things.. 1. Take hair from a know bad bow, superglue a bundle about 20 strands to the tip of the bow and to the frog. Put this new hair on top of the old....Problem solved. 2. since bow hair is just horse tail, you can do the same superglue technique using High Strength carpet thread.. you get to pick the color....I hate to have to step in on these conversations but I see a struggle going on.
I guess that's one way to do a hair transplant!
That's the only way I'll ever have a pony tail again.
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