I'm sorry I don't know that tune.

Mick Kinney and his sons in Georgia know and teach a lot of those old ragtime tunes. youtube.com/watch?v=lmUh-HExGR...t_radio=1
youtube.com/watch?v=rE_qvGSYSN...t_radio=1

There's also this book by Steve Parker: ragtime-resource.com/ragtime-f...n-parker/

quote:

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Originally posted by Banjer

I just stumbled upon this little youtube video:
youtube.com/shorts/CWQiy_8Pm88
Does anyone know, which tune she is playing? I would love to learn it and check out other versions of this rag.

I play old-time fiddle and I'm trying to get more into Ragtime playing now. Do you know any good sources where I can learn more stuff like that? And maybe find some lessons, exercises, bowing patterns etc. I'm living in Germany and there are no violin teachers out here, that know anything about stuff like that.

So far the Ragtime-tunes I can play more or less comfortably are: Chinese Breakdown, Pig Ankle Rag, Stone Mountain Wobble and Stones Rag. I would really love to know more about this style.

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The video lists it as Hen Cackle. A quick search for Hen Cackle Rag leads to this original composition by Charles L. Johnson from 1912:

https://youtu.be/hUUYwR0Wv7o?si=54QFBS6pWGWPG4ub

To learn ragtime I'd recommend listening to the original repertoire. There are books of the original compositions. Ragtime was much more written out in sheet music, so you can easily find sources. It might be worth it to make your own transcriptions of tunes. 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Violin Beautiful

quote:

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Originally posted by Banjer

I just stumbled upon this little youtube video:
youtube.com/shorts/CWQiy_8Pm88
Does anyone know, which tune she is playing? I would love to learn it and check out other versions of this rag.

I play old-time fiddle and I'm trying to get more into Ragtime playing now. Do you know any good sources where I can learn more stuff like that? And maybe find some lessons, exercises, bowing patterns etc. I'm living in Germany and there are no violin teachers out here, that know anything about stuff like that.

So far the Ragtime-tunes I can play more or less comfortably are: Chinese Breakdown, Pig Ankle Rag, Stone Mountain Wobble and Stones Rag. I would really love to know more about this style.

---

The video lists it as Hen Cackle. A quick search for Hen Cackle Rag leads to this original composition by Charles L. Johnson from 1912:

https://youtu.be/hUUYwR0Wv7o?si=54QFBS6pWGWPG4ub

To learn ragtime I'd recommend listening to the original repertoire. There are books of the original compositions. Ragtime was much more written out in sheet music, so you can easily find sources. It might be worth it to make your own transcriptions of tunes. 

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Unfortunately it's just a link to another video that features the tune "Hen Cackle" but that's not what she is actually playing, I already looked it up.

I read sheet music a little bit but I would prefer to listen to some fiddle sources and watching people play that stuff to actually see whats going on on the fiddle rather then just playing the melodies. There are some tricks and licks involved that aren't really written down in the sheet music.

Its a little confusing - there's a short, which I think is what you're asking about. I don't know what that is, although it sounds familiar. Then there's a long form video, which is "Cackling Hen," or "Hen Cackle," which is not a rag. Neither are the piece Rich found, although one strain of that is the tune known as "Crow Black Chicken."
BTW - I don't know your skill level, but I played guitar on the Highwoods recording of "Pig Ankle Rag," which I believe is the source, directly or indirectly, of most other modern versions. Lots of people just play the basic tune over and over and think that's it, but if you listen to our recording on YouTube you'll hear that there are lot more variations possible. Some people don't even get all the chords, but its a catchy tune.
Maybe more later.

I think "Pig Ankle" is an old Memphis jug band tune from the teens or '20s. My favorite version is Ray Curbow's slowed-down "Pig Ankle Blues" from Rounder's 'Traditional Fiddle of the Ozarks' collection.

Straying a little - Gus Cannon's jug band recorded "Pig Ankle Strut" in 1928, which has some similarities to the modern versions, but we'd never heard that when we made our recording in 1976, and I don't think most people today have either.
Here's the record: youtu.be/F0ntq5iJuGI?si=48gRFH-paCiLFXqX
I'm sure my bandmates learned the tune in California from Ron Hughey, who I believe was originally from the Ozarks (or Oklahoma - I didn't know him). You can hear his recording on the Slippery Hill website.
I'd like to hear the version you mentioned. I don't know how the tune got from Memphis to Oklahoma, and morphed quite a bit along the way.

slippery-hill.com/content/pig-ankle-blues

Thanks Barry, we cross posted. That's nice. Recorded about 20 years later.
PS - There are two other good versions of "Pig Ankle" at Slippery Hill, by Uncle Dick Hutchinson and Cliff Trisler, both recorded in 1976, and both from Oklahoma.

Don't want to drag this out, but somehow "Pig Ankle Rag" was chosen as an alternate to some classical tune as a graded examination piece in some English music school program. Consequently, if you look on YouTube you can find it being played by young beginner/intermediate violin students from all over the world (mostly former British colonies). Quite amazing really!

I posted the link to the piano piece because I think the fiddle tune in the short is likely derived from the piano piece. They start out differently, but as you get into the meat of the tune, they follow some very similar patterns. It sounds to me like the fiddle tune grew out of what was remembered from the original and the rest was fleshed out using some conventional fiddle phrases. Fiddlers tend to modify the style a bit when they play Ragtime tunes and add more of a swing feel to them.

I said I didn't want to drag the "Pig Ankle" out any more, but I just scrolled and scrolled to find this, so I can't let it go. One of my favorite verions of "Pig Ankle" - they're playing at a barbecue for the volunteers at a children's hospice in Devon, and having quite a good time:
youtu.be/QKnDgIPh2N0?si=1-R1RUYevG6zNoDB

quote:

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Originally posted by DougD

I said I didn't want to drag the "Pig Ankle" out any more, but I just scrolled and scrolled to find this, so I can't let it go. One of my favorite verions of "Pig Ankle" - they're playing at a barbecue for the volunteers at a children's hospice in Devon, and having quite a good time:
youtu.be/QKnDgIPh2N0?si=1-R1RUYevG6zNoDB

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I think that recording shows how much players can make Ragtime tunes sound much different from the Ragtime era.

Ragtime was heavily focused on syncopation and a steady march-like sound. The first and third beats were emphasized strongly, but then the syncopation would sometimes make an offbeat take a sudden or unexpected emphasis, giving it the "ragged" sound, but all the while moving along in an almost mechanical fashion. This is why Ragtime worked pretty well for piano rolls. The use of chords and a clear bass progression filled out the bad sound even if just played on a piano. The upper lines would often skip around a lot, with larger interval spacing for effect. There was often a stacccato sound to the chords played. Fiddlers tend to tie everything together and blur the lines, rounding off all the edges and putting far too much emphasis on backbeats and losing the driving force of the march. The original Ragtime music has a clockwork feel to it, but so many recordings that borrow the melodic lines feel more like a clock that is in severe need of regulation or perhaps some replacement parts.

That being said, I'm not entirely against modern interpretations. The connected swing sound is pleasant and a lot of tunes are fun to play and hear that way. It's just that the original feel of the music seems to be erased in favor of a smoother bowing style. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjer

I just stumbled upon this little youtube video:
youtube.com/shorts/CWQiy_8Pm88
Does anyone know, which tune she is playing? I would love to learn it and check out other versions of this rag.

I play old-time fiddle and I'm trying to get more into Ragtime playing now. Do you know any good sources where I can learn more stuff like that? And maybe find some lessons, exercises, bowing patterns etc. I'm living in Germany and there are no violin teachers out here, that know anything about stuff like that.

So far the Ragtime-tunes I can play more or less comfortably are: Chinese Breakdown, Pig Ankle Rag, Stone Mountain Wobble and Stones Rag. I would really love to know more about this style.

---

Great tune. 

I think what you are perhaps wanting is playing category of fiddle tune referred to as "Rags"? (which lots of fiddlers refer and love)

These are not quite the same thing as "Ragtime" (or Classical Ragtime); from more formal music and commercial music industry. Though does does share some similar aspects and feel; as generally "Ragtime" is considered coming from older Folk Rag origins. As well popular/commercial music and fads also then somewhat goes back other way and has influence on fiddle; interpretation and naming (inc. popular use of name, not academia/technical conforming definition)

As far as good resource for other tunes in fiddle rag type. If go to slippery hill site and search "rag"

https://www.slippery-hill.com/tune-search?search_api_fulltext=rag&page=1

Note that these are often in C or F. There is something about those keys that lend itself to that feel of rag; indeed lot of C tunes tend to lean toward rag feel. Mention of "Chinese Breakdown" if played in C (vs D) is an example. 

I do note that many of these type seems to come from Midwest, central Mississippi Valley; as well the Piedmont area... or just more popular there?

As well, another resource is notice that they are popular with plectrum players, mandolin players, flatpick guitar.

Another version of rag in fiddle tune world is more of the Contest Style... as often preferred "other" tune in contest.

Banjer - You may be chasing a bit of a rare bird. I wish I knew the name of that tune - parts of it seem so familiar. In any case, this is a "country" or "folk" rag, like "Pig Ankle," not a classic multipart piece, usually written for piano. The heyday of ragtime as popular music was from maybe 1890 to 1910 or so. Because the piano didn't record well, a lot were recorded on banjo, by people like Vess Ossman and Fred Van Eps. You can find a lot of that online, but I don't think its what you're looking for.
In later years, some rags were recorded on mandolin, which would transfer to fiddle. "Dallas Rag" by Coley Jones and the Dallas String Band is one good one. Its on one of the three volumes of "Before the Blues," but I don't know how many others like that are on there. The East Texas Serenaders recorded some rags, notably "Beaumont Rag." You might also check out Martin, Bogan and Armstrong, although I don't know how many rags they played. "G Rag" by the Georgia Yellowhammers features one of the African American Baxter brothers on fiddle.
Among newer players, Jerron Paxton and Dom Flemons know some of this stuff, but I don't know how much is out there. Jerron plays fiddle, and I know I backed him up playing a rag in F on the mandolin at a party once, but I never can remember the name of it.
Good hunting!

Banjer - Here's an example of a classic rag played on banjo by Walt Koken, one of the fiddlers on our recording of "Pig Ankle."
slippery-hill.com/content/maple-leaf-rag-0

PS - I just checked out Alaska's link to Slippery Hill. There should be enough there to keep you busy for some time!

PPS - I wouldn't be too surprised if the tune in that YouTube short isn't on that Slippery Hill list somewhere. I doubt that its too obscure. You just have to find it!

The fiddler is Sarah Adams, IIRC she was mentored by Jon Bekoff. (he knew a lot ofpretty obscure tunes)

She like rags, (and F)... if you like that sort of thing, lots of content of her playing

Might try to contact her and ask her about the origin.

It seems Sarah Adams is, or was, a member here, but for some reason her account is locked, so no help there.
Small correction - Ron Hughey, the California fiddler who played "Pig Ankle Rag" was originally from Missouri.
Banjer - Hope you found some good tunes from this thread!

If you’re interested in the competition-style rags, there are plenty of recordings available.

Here is an example of a piece in the Ragtime style that was written by Dave Rubinoff not long after the end of its heyday:

youtu.be/pa-kK8hUMFw?si=RoREbug4Jmuv2J0H

Pig Ankle Rag is a favorite piece with the JAM kids in Polk County, NC. It is fun to hear them get it under their fingers and take off with it. A good intro to playing fiddle rags.