I learned Cherry River Line from a YouTube video of Lester McCumbers playing with Kim Johnson (banjo). I was “smitten” the first time I heard it. I learned it, but it always reminded me of other tunes. Come to find out (right or wrong) the tune actually started out as a mountain “song” from West Virginia by the same name. Listening to them both and knowing the story - I can hear it (kinda). But… like a lot of other songs/tunes - if no one told me the story, I would have never made the connection. I’m working on the song - it’s just as good.
There are a good number of folks who have recorded the mountain song version. But to me - the best one is done by Sara Grey with Kieron Means on fiddle on the CD “Down in Old Dolores”. Well done!
So, it started out as a song written for banjo accompaniment. And Lester McCumbers tell a story of how he came to play the song on fiddle. No one disputes the claim that Lester was the source for the fiddle tune version. There is no evidence to say otherwise. I want to say that it became popular because his version of Cherry River Line is that good - it can’t be ignored (I can’t).
But the mountain song is worth learning too. I want to be able to sing it while I play. We’ll see.
Used my phone “wrapped up” in a towel for recording. Fiddle is tuned to G (GDgd). And if your interested, back in 2016 I uploaded recording of me playing the fiddle and I added a track with me playing the guitar for accompaniment. It’s in my media folder. I’ll add it here if requested.
Edited by - tonyelder on 12/24/2025 06:23:21
Don't have time to listen right now, but if you're interested in some history: The Cherry River Boom and Lumber company was a huge 20th century logging and sawmill operation centered in Richwood, WV, which included a private railroad. Here's a picture of ine of the Shay locomotives: rlhs.org/Chapters/msc/ardrey/RCR7_1.html
And here's a history of the railroad:
trains.com/trn/railroads/histo...m-lumber/
quote:
Originally posted by DougDDon't have time to listen right now, but if you're interested in some history: The Cherry River Boom and Lumber company was a huge 20th century logging and sawmill operation centered in Richwood, WV, which included a private railroad. Here's a picture of ine of the Shay locomotives: rlhs.org/Chapters/msc/ardrey/RCR7_1.html
And here's a history of the railroad:
trains.com/trn/railroads/histo...m-lumber/
Thanks Doug. The added history makes the song and tune a little more "special". It's fun to add context to what you're about to play for an audience.
I went looking for more and found information (for those who might be interested) about the locomotive here // a sad accident - from a runaway train // more interesting photos here // interesting history of founding of Cherry County in 1902 // and the Cherry River Boom & Lumber Co
Sorry, I'm a history nut.
And to go a bit further... it is said by some that the song probably originated from a lumber camp theme more than a railroad crew. I was interested to see - if that is true - was there any lyrics that ever hinted about that life? ...or something in them that spoke to that fact.
I found an article that explains the "line" is not a reference to the railroad tracks itself, but to the timber-haul line - a skid row - that would be used to get the timber down the mountain to the flatbed rail cars - according to Joe Newberry and Mike Compton in some notes they included to Bluegrass Today magazine. The link includes a additional link to them playing the mountain song version. Well done! (Another couple of my heroes)
The available lyrics are suspect - as far as identifying the earliest, or most relevant words. Mudcat has a few versions. If it is a lumber camp theme, some of the more common verses don't seem to fit. I don't think that really matters, but if I could find them - that is what I would learn.
Any ideas?
Tony - The locomotive in the link you provided is not the one in the photo I linked - its a totally different type. The locomotive in my link is a Shay - a specialized gear driven engine that was used by logging companies to harvest the virgin timber in remote, often mountainous areas like West Virginia.
shaylocomotives.com/ There's also some good info online about one in the B&O railroad museum.
I hate to be a Grinch, but I don't believe that this is a "traditional mountain song" at all. Maybe the little part "It's lonesome down here, etc." but as you said the lyrics are "suspect" - the rest of the lyrics seem to me like somebody trying to write a "folky" sounding song. Mudcat must have some opinions, and I haven't tried to research it at all, but it just sets off my "psuedo folk" meter.
Interestly, I don't think the Fiddlers Companion (ancestor of the TTA) even lists this tune at all, let alone a song.
As far as what "line" refers to, I wouldn't put too much stock in what the Bluegrass Today article says. Joe is a friend of mine, and I know Mike slightly - I admire their music, but I think their backwoods logging experience is quite limited.
I'd like to see what a folksong collection from WV has to say about this song.
Edited by - DougD on 12/24/2025 13:27:36
quote:
Originally posted by DougDTony - The locomotive in the link you provided is not the one in the photo I linked - its a totally different type. The locomotive in my link is a Shay - a specialized gear driven engine that was used by logging companies to harvest the virgin timber in remote, often mountainous areas like West Virginia.
shaylocomotives.com/ There's also some good info online about one in the B&O railroad museum.
I hate to be a Grinch, but I don't believe that this is a "traditional mountain song" at all. Maybe the little part "It's lonesome down here, etc." but as you said the lyrics are "suspect" - the rest of the lyrics seem to me like somebody trying to write a "folky" sounding song. Mudcat must have some opinions, and I haven't tried to research it at all, but it just sets off my "psuedo folk" meter.
Interestly, I don't think the Fiddlers Companion (ancestor of the TTA) even lists this tune at all, let alone a song.
As far as what "line" refers to, I wouldn't put too much stock in what the Bluegrass Today article says. Joe is a friend of mine, and I know Mike slightly - I admire their music, but I think their backwoods logging experience is quite limited.
I'd like to see what a folksong collection from WV has to say about this song.
You can be a Grinch all day long, Doug. I only provided what searches turned up. If you have better information, then I will gladly accept it as fact - or at least a reputable opinion. I am by no means an expert on any of this - not pretending to be. 
Concerning the locomotive, no - it isn't the same as the one in your photo. I should not have used "the" definite article as an adjective. But I don't think the information I linked to was claiming it to be any thing other than what it said it was. It was identifying a locomotive that ran on the "Cherry River Boom & Lumber Company" railroad. That record reports:
"CRB&LC operated on 140 miles of standard gauge railroad using eighteen locomotives powered by fuel from"...its own electrically-equipped coal mine at North Bond, 9 miles out of Richwood "
And it also includes this statement:
The 15 was delivered as a 2-8-0, but had an auxiliary trailing axle added sometime after it entered service. Thus converted to a bastard 2-8-2, the 15 served the CRB & LC for almost 50 years before being scrapped in 1960. The 18 arrived as a 2-8-0 in 1919.
There were more than a few Baldwins that were used - 1912 was the first year they were used.
Concerning it being a "traditional mountain song" - ummm... I didn't say it was (
). What I did say was: "it started out as a mountain "song" from West Virginia". It pre-dates Lester's version - obviously. Was it traditional? It was a song that Lester knew about - learned from someone else who played it - so, it was in circulation. I'll say no more. 
Most of the lyrics I've heard used with the song were mostly floating verses without any references to any railroad, or anything else; nothing that speaks with a given theme or narrative - like a ballad. But lyrics songs are just as traditional as ballads. How popular it? I guess, as far as we know. it wasn't very popular. So....
And - shame on me for believing what Joe and Mike said - I should have known better. 
But they were so convincing.
Thanks for keeping us straight and honest. 
Edited by - tonyelder on 12/24/2025 17:33:30
Jenes Cottrell (right at the beginning of this classic LP)
quote:
Originally posted by carlbJenes Cottrell (right at the beginning of this classic LP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGZg6Ds6eGc
Thank you Carl. My search didn't turn that up, but - obvious I didn't use the right search (according to the title of the video). It's nice to hear his recording. Based on his "rendering" - these are the correct lyrics, according to what he is singing:
CHERRY RIVER LINE
As sung by Nate Grower on "Nate Grower" (2010)
Well, I'm lonesome here; yes, I'm lonesome all the time.
Well, it's lonesome on the Cherry, Cherry River line.
Got a gal in yonder mountain between the spreading pines.
Well, I know that she loves me, for she's always on my mind.
Yonder stands my Lulie gal with a wine glass in her hand.
She's drinkin' down her troubles courtin' another man.
Well, I told my Lulie gal; yes, I told her all I can,
That I've hugged another woman; she can get another man.
Well, it's now she's gone and left me; she's left me for to weep.
Some other rounder's got her, my little girl so sweet.
Sometime you may forget me though I'm never on your mind,
But I never shall forget this Cherry River line.
Well, I used to court a young lady; fine laces she did wear,
But now she's choosed [sic] another buddy; he lets her feet go bare.
Where'd you get those pretty little shoes and the dress you wear so fine?
Well, I got my shoes from a railroad man, my dress from a trapper(?) in the mine.
Well, it's when, when I die, just bury me under the tie,
So can I can hear old Number Four as she goes rollin' by.
Well, the train that I ride, she runs mighty slow.
Lord, I hate to hear that lonesome, lonesome whistle blow.
Well, it's lonesome here; yes, it's lonesome ev'rywhere.
Well, I'm lonesome; yes, I'm lonesome; I'm lonesome all the time.
***This was copied from a thread found in Mudcat here. And if you go there you can see other "contributions" also sharing lyrics - more or less the same though.
And then there is this... This is an opinion that Lester's "Cherry River Line" is actually closer to being a morphed version of "Reuben's Train" more than "Cherry River Line". But... we'll need to have Lester straighten that out for us - I guess. But I have to agree a bit - Reuben's Train sounds more familiar. Here's a bit more to read and listen to - a nice collection of tunes by a WV fiddler recorded at Clifftop in 2012 that includes Cherry River Line. The fiddler is Ralph Roberts - and supposed to be kin with the Hammons family. Interesting.
Thanks again Carl.
Edited by - tonyelder on 12/25/2025 07:57:21
Cool! Love your version, Tony! I heard it on a recording of Dwight Diller and John Morris...I played it some but was never happy with it, when, years and years ago, someone on this site here told me to try it in Black Mt Rag tuning...aka Calico tuning...whatever ya wanna call it. I also sang it. Haven't played it for years now, but it did turn out really great for me in the tuning. I'm not a fan of that tuning...it just always sounds off to me somehow with that 3rd interval...but it did really work out for that tune.
The words I had gotten somehow...can't even remember, but they were similar to the lumberjack version. I've got it on YouTube somewhere, I believe...but anyway, no time for finding it now.
It's a cool tune/song I haven't thought of in years...another tune forgotten. Thanks for sharing yours and bringing the tune back to life, for me, anyway. Merry Christmas.
quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggyCool! Love your version, Tony! I heard it on a recording of Dwight Diller and John Morris...I played it some but was never happy with it, when, years and years ago, someone on this site here told me to try it in Black Mt Rag tuning...aka Calico tuning...whatever ya wanna call it. I also sang it. Haven't played it for years now, but it did turn out really great for me in the tuning. I'm not a fan of that tuning...it just always sounds off to me somehow with that 3rd interval...but it did really work out for that tune.
The words I had gotten somehow...can't even remember, but they were similar to the lumberjack version. I've got it on YouTube somewhere, I believe...but anyway, no time for finding it now.
It's a cool tune/song I haven't thought of in years...another tune forgotten. Thanks for sharing yours and bringing the tune back to life, for me, anyway. Merry Christmas.
Quiet honestly Peggy - I thought about you several times while posting my comments. I'm glad to see your response. Merry Christmas!
Great minds think alike???? LOL. Tony, I'm glad you are keeping the topics going...great stuff.
Doesn’t it sound very much like a variant of Reuben’s Train?
Or maybe Reuben is a variant of Cherry River Line?
Not trying to butt in my stuff on Tony's thread, but this is how I've heard it played where Dwight Diller lived. Something like this. Of course it's done my own way, as always, but this is what I came up with for myself after having heard Dwight and John Morris play it...at least 1,000 x better than I'll ever do. Of course also the high string is only a third up, so call it Calico tuning in G if you wanna...lol.
youtu.be/vR1L97dRYg8?si=u25jLaD3JfljSJ9R
Edited by - groundhogpeggy on 12/26/2025 13:43:18
It has shades of Don’t Let Your Deal Go Down (not the BG version)
Peghead - I guess you mean versions like this (its the last track on the album) youtu.be/_jtgfBjNdKg?si=IcIEz14-H9ee9d6W
Also reminds me a little of "Red Rocking Chair" or something similar.
But I guess that high part is sometimes sung to "Reuben" too.
quote:
Originally posted by DougDPeghead - I guess you mean versions like this (its the last track on the album) youtu.be/_jtgfBjNdKg?si=IcIEz14-H9ee9d6W
Also reminds me a little of "Red Rocking Chair" or something similar.
Thanks Doug. I was going to ask Carl for a link - to hear what he was referring to. I hear it there - for sure.
But I'm curious about "Red Rocking Chair". I know Doc Watson's version and I have a harder time putting that one together with Lester's "Cherry River LIne" . But I know there are a lot of different version of that song too. And if anyone knows the other versions - that would be you - for sure. Can you share a link to the one you're thinking about?
Thanks.
Edited by - tonyelder on 12/27/2025 09:51:28
quote:
Originally posted by groundhogpeggyNot trying to butt in my stuff on Tony's thread, but this is how I've heard it played where Dwight Diller lived. Something like this. Of course it's done my own way, as always, but this is what I came up with for myself after having heard Dwight and John Morris play it...at least 1,000 x better than I'll ever do. Of course also the high string is only a third up, so call it Calico tuning in G if you wanna...lol.
youtu.be/vR1L97dRYg8?si=u25jLaD3JfljSJ9R
Nice!
quote:
Originally posted by GallaherDoesn’t it sound very much like a variant of Reuben’s Train?
Or maybe Reuben is a variant of Cherry River Line?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q62oT_9La34 - Lester McCumbers / Cherry River Line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcnLhRCj2bc - Joe Birchfield / Rueben"s Train
I has been said the Reuben's Train is in the family of "Nine Hundred Miles", "the Longest Train", "In The Pines", "Rain and Snow" / similar melodies. Reuben's Train earliest recording goes back to 1927 by Grayson & Whitteer. So my guess is that it probably pre-dates Cherry River Line - so does The Lonest Train, and In The Pines. No dates for Rain and Snow or Nine Hundred Miles.
Edited by - tonyelder on 12/27/2025 10:08:59
Lester McCumbers' sounds like Rueben's Train in the A part and Pretty Little Shoes in the B part, to me at least.
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