Doesn’t seem like cheating to me, more like ear training!

A lot of fiddlers will check if they’re in tune with a few opening double stops…

I use them too - more when practicing. My favorite is the third finger against the open string below ( find out how off you really are, wince).

I had a whole book of double stop exercises I had to do, when I was learning violin… double stops up the neck too! I kinda hated that book…it was hard…

Def not cheating. The 5th "fret" octave is a great way to establish your position on the fingerboard, and then go from there. fingered double stops themselves can be in tune with both notes, but be out of position, ie doing the G (B/G) on the A&E string, and be in tune with itself, but if its out of position, its not going be good with other instruments or other notes when you pay them. I use the above and also other open string, single fingered double stops to check intonation positions throughout a tune or break. Incorporate those into your playing, it will tend to teach your fingers where to go. Learn to listen to the harmonies those open string double stops make and when they are in perfect tune with each note. So not cheating!

One of my warm ups is doing double stop arpeggios, and those open string ones are right in there! 

Actually, it's all cheating. Everything you do to get a sound you like is cheating. We're constantly figuring out all the little hacks to make music that sounds pure and effortless. Want to know another cheat? A little vibrato doesn't hurt nailing your intonation either. Don't tell.

You know what, checking intonation with the open strings appears in most beginner classical tutor books. All the fingered notes in 1st position can be harmonized with adjacent open strings, I would suggest to practise all of them. When you've trained your ear to hear those (double stops) then you can progress to learning the intervals on same string: Open-1st finger = minor 2nd/Major 2nd. O-2nd = m3/M3. O-3rd = perfect 4th. O-4th = perfect 5th. When you can hear those intervals now its time to 'anticipate' the intervals: Play the open string then actually hear the interval you're intending to play in your head before you play it, this may seem difficult in the beginning but you must persevere. When this is practised for as much time necessary something magical happens: your fingers play the pitches you hear, and the more you practise this the reaction between hearing and finger placement becomes lightning fast. Some people call that 'muscle memory' but there's no such thing, it's the mind being worked on the fingers. Form a habit of applying this approach and you will use it for the rest of your journey.

The great Chet Aktins once advised guitarists in his audience to do whatever you have to to get through a tune you wanna play. Of course he was talking guitar, but what's the difference? How can any of it be cheating? Everybody just has to figure a way to make it work...or at least make it sound like it works...lol...even if it ain't exactly note-for-note. Just enough to suggest what it is you want people to hear, or think they hear...or even you want just yourself to hear. Just like with visual art...it's just an illusion...how are you gonna make people see, or think they see, some sharp shadow giving the feeling of an icy chill on the side of a mountain? It's just paper and color, or black and white lines...you have to figure out a way that you can put the image into an observer's mind to where they see that image and the feeling of that image when it's just scribbles on a page in reality. Ain't cheatin' to do whatever it takes to get it.

That ain't cheatin, that's playin.
Now, make a backing track starting with 1-4-5 in D. I.e., D, G, A.
Find all the 1 double-stops. Then find all the 4 double-stops. Then the 5 double-stops. You'll find them all over the fingerboard. So you voice/choose them that are handy when you're moving from one to the next.
Cheating: Cheating is looking at a mandolin chord library, in the four finger closed chords, then using half. Eventually you'll get to minors an 7ths and other chords, this is where the mandolin chord library is my cheat.

I agree, much of this tech stuff can be figured out by oneself, but I would say all of it is tried and true, past down through the centuries. Thus, much time can be saved when one follows the instruction of our forebears.

classical musicians do the same thing. just watched a video recently of one of the finest violinists of our time share his cheats and tricks.

i think it was Kenny Baker who said "What is better than one string?"...or similar.

The thread title brings this to mind. There's fiddle and pedal steel, the best of both worlds.

Hank

I can relate to the whole intonation thing. My worse downfall and one of the most important things when it comes to playing the fiddle.

To paraphrase, "The road to Hell is paved with bad intonations".

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Originally posted by wrench13

To paraphrase, "The road to Hell is paved with bad intonations".

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The bas___d that can't keep time will run by them on that road.

Playing my first Mandolin/Fiddle gig this Saturday! Mainly staying on the Mandolin. I asked a buddy who I'm playing with that has a fiddle with a pick up. Going to take my bow and plug that bad boy in! Only on a couple tunes and we'll see how it feels. I know plugging in is a bit different. Plus, I'm playing on a fiddle that's not mine but the one time I did get to test it, I remember it being very loud and enjoying it.

All this week I've skipped fiddle practice in the morning and trying to get my fingers acquainted to the mandolin. The fiddle is sooooo much easier to play than the mandolin. It feels like I'm swinging that warm up bat they use in baseball before they go up to bat...lol. Sam Bush is one of my heros that plays both at his live shows. May I capture that spirit this Saturday! lol

funny thing is listeners don't care how you got the note, they just hear if it sounds right or not. so yeah, I wouldn't stress it. end of the day if you're having fun and it doesn't sound terrible, you're doing it right. geometry dash wave

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Originally posted by Erockin

Playing my first Mandolin/Fiddle gig this Saturday! Mainly staying on the Mandolin. I asked a buddy who I'm playing with that has a fiddle with a pick up. Going to take my bow and plug that bad boy in! Only on a couple tunes and we'll see how it feels. I know plugging in is a bit different. Plus, I'm playing on a fiddle that's not mine but the one time I did get to test it, I remember it being very loud and enjoying it.

All this week I've skipped fiddle practice in the morning and trying to get my fingers acquainted to the mandolin. The fiddle is sooooo much easier to play than the mandolin. It feels like I'm swinging that warm up bat they use in baseball before they go up to bat...lol. Sam Bush is one of my heros that plays both at his live shows. May I capture that spirit this Saturday! lol

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Do you have a volume pot or footpedal? I'm always backing off and finding my place, because they never tell me the key or the tune. 

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Yep! When I was asked...I was pumped because I get to plug in with my pedalboard!!

I have a K-n-K Twin Spot in my mandolin and the fiddle I'm using has something decent in it. Not a mic though.

I'm running through a LR Baggs Venue Preamp that has a boost for breaks/solos. I also have an analog delay pedal, vintage chorus and MXR Phase. Delay and Phase will be neat with a fiddle if we get a little weird! Also I love my TC electronic pedal tuner. They announced it too as this, "Special Guest Eric Avey on Mandolin and Fiddle, I can't wuss out now!!! lol

Erockin From what you've said, I can't tell if you've had much experience playing an amped fiddle or not - but if not, I would really try to give it a crack beforehand, even if it's just before or after the sound check. It can be really jarring to hear what comes loud and proud out of the speakers .....

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Originally posted by Old Scratch

Erockin From what you've said, I can't tell if you've had much experience playing an amped fiddle or not - but if not, I would really try to give it a crack beforehand, even if it's just before or after the sound check. It can be really jarring to hear what comes loud and proud out of the speakers .....

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You're soooooo right! Probably why I couldn't sleep last night lol. I am hopeful to say the least. Def going to start out quite and slow. Ease up the volume. I'm always the first to show up for a show so hopefully he is too. Not only plugging in, but playing someone else's instrument can be challenging. Just knowing where his notes land and the set up. When I played it a year ago it played like a dream! If it's too bad, I'll spare the crowd! 

Well, Gang. It goes like this.
On screen it seemed pretty easy to type out, "hey, I'm going to play fiddle" and when you're hometown bar fills up to almost capacity and friends, family and fellow musicians gather before you, well, I made the smart decision to let the fiddle on the stand. I was however able to play it to warm up before plugging it in. I don't remember the action being so high on this one. My fiddle is lower and more flat. This bridge stood pretty tall. We did plug it in but, we weren't using monitors so, to play in tune would have been a major challenge for me. No shame in the game. On the mandolin on the other hand went pretty well. They played mostly in G, A, D and some E. Actually, there was a tune I lead in Dm that's fun to jam on. Delay and Chorus is super fun to add on Mandolin when soloing. Super fun night of rowdiness. Maybe next time...

You know, sometimes inside your 'comfort zone' is the right place to be. Sounds like a good night!

I always try to remind my music buddies that, "you never know who's watching, so go at it with your best"
Since this past show, I was invited to play again with these guys as a trio next Saturday! The owner was in the crowd and witnessed a killer night. I am going to get video of this show. I was hoping to get a little more practice in before my next mandolin event but, I've always been good at cramming for the test! lol. So from now until the 11th, it'll be all mandolin practice in the mornings. I think it's a good thing because now I'm learning the chords for my 40 song fiddle playlist. It's forcing me to think differently and while it's a struggle, it's helping.

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Originally posted by Strabo

After many years playing mandolin, I took up fiddle four years ago. I did not grow up drilling intonation under the watchful eye of a disciplinarian teacher, so my intonation is a little suspect, sometimes pretty good, sometimes not so good, and occasionally bad enough to make me go do something else.

I often play fiddle with lots of double stops and unisons -- an obvious holdover from mandolin. And I have noticed that those double stops and especially the unisons tend to keep my intonation from wandering off into horrible sounding mistakes.

Well, I don’t know if this is a form of cheating, a hacker’s way of producing good intonation without spending hours playing scales in some dark practice room at the music school. But it does seem to work for me -- I figure that I’ll never be anything but a hack fiddler so it must be OK...

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i also cheat even worse.... i sometimes shift down or stay where i am (fingering wise), for a higher part. Even just making up harmonies so i don't have to move, and can stay on 2 strings if i want to.

Just yesterday while busking I demonstrated various bow 'tricks'..(cheating?) that help a violin sound like a fiddle..! Whatever it takes..

A recent discussion here mentioned Tricia Spencer’s book. It sounded interesting so I bought the book. Tricia’s approach is a good fit with my current direction -- improving my seconding skills and my ability to chase unfamiliar tunes in jams.

I have never been one for repetitive drilling or formal lesson plans but I think I’ll work my way through her system for a while. She works from double stops and chord shapes, which come easy for me after years of mandolin. Her exercises might also help me clean up some sloppy technique -- and I might even learn the names of the notes!