I recently recorded myself while playing with Midnight On The Water, where I was just varying/improvizing on the main melody, a bit based on what I learned from several different written tune versions, a bit just spontaneous bowing at the moment itself.
Now I want the sheet music of my own first interpretation, so that I can always play it almost exactly like I did during this recording - but maybe fine tune the structure of my own interpretation a bit so that it becomes more real and repeatable.
I think I have two options here:
1) use some sort of software
2) study the basics of standard notation again and use sheet music paper and a pen so I can write it down myself
I just tried melodyscanner.com, but the output is never correct. Whatever I try, it just seems the program leaves out certain notes and parts and adds unnecessary breaks. However, some parts seem correct (if I change the key, because I was cross tuning) and I could use these parts and try to fill out the blanks where the software failed.
On the one hand it will hurt my brain a bit if I have to dive into the art of standard notation again - if I want it to appear 100% correct. On the other hand... this might be very useful for future experiments to learn again how to write down a tune just from hearing it. We had to be able to do this as kids in order to pass our exams of music theory, but it is so long ago, all I remember is that we needed to study a lot to pass these exams and that scares me off a bit.
Are there easier ways? Are there better programs than melodyscanner?
Or does anyone know of a user friendly site where one can easily practice in standard notation?
Have you tried using an existing sheet music version as a starting point and then changing it if your ideas are different in some places? There are several versions at the session.org, and a couple at the traditional tune archive. I guess you've already found a bunch, but a Google search finds more, including a fairly simple "play along" YouTube version by Andy Reiner, son of one of our members.
Edited by - DougD on 05/25/2025 02:32:03
That's maybe not a bad idea either... edit : But right now trying to see if ChatGPT will be able to do anything with it.
Edited by - Quincy on 05/25/2025 02:39:45
Either paper and pencil, or MuseScore, and transcribing your own interpretation are likely the best tools for your job.
MuseScore will spit out a midi file of your interpretation. And import a midi file, ABC file, or .xml file from say "the session.org" or similar.
if you are transcribing your own version of a tune i would use paper and pencil first (maybe just stick with that?), then put that into MuseScore to get readable/shareable notation.
Then check the resulting midi to hear if it fits what you want it to sound like. All of the above require music notation and transcription skills. The audio to midi software is still rubbish, and requires more work than just transcribing it yourself. Or just writing it down with paper and pencil.
Edited by - pete_fiddle on 05/25/2025 12:27:07
Barely on subject.. A few years ago a friend made a sheet music transcription of my popular tune "Sunday Afternoon" in cross A.... He had included every triplet, slide, slur, ect that I used in the tune.. Problem is, I play the tune a little differently every time! So a made my own transcription of the 'bones' of the tune.. We shall see!
I remember a software called "finale."
Yes. I wasn't dreaming.
lol@farmerjones , I don't think I need it anymore.
1) it's against tradition!!!
2) I have the impression I'm becoming more difficult to just decypher, well that's just a guess but hey, that is okay, right?
quote:
Originally posted by Quincylol@farmerjones , I don't think I need it anymore.
1) it's against tradition!!!
2) I have the impression I'm becoming more difficult to just decypher, well that's just a guess but hey, that is okay, right?
Simplest is to start the recorder on your phone. But be careful! Have a few SD cards for when you run out of room. Cheers!
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Originally posted by TuneWeaverBarely on subject.. A few years ago a friend made a sheet music transcription of my popular tune "Sunday Afternoon" in cross A.... He had included every triplet, slide, slur, ect that I used in the tune.. Problem is, I play the tune a little differently every time! So a made my own transcription of the 'bones' of the tune.. We shall see!
Lee, By transcribing your tune in detail as it was at the time, you can safely assume he has captured that moment in time, (if he is an an accurate transcriber). Therefore you can return to it yourself if you need/want to. And any other player interested has a starting point from which to interpret your tune also. Win Win! Transcribing is a good learning tool, even if transcribe your own playing. IMO
Don't use chatgpt, my electricity bills are high enough.
This is a perfect opportunity to learn to transcribe your playing. It isn't hard, all you need is lined paper, doesn't even have to be staff paper. Especially if you start with some sheet music as a reference.
Wait are you saying transcribing good against tradition? That would be a false assumption.
Throughout time there have been fiddlers who learned to note that own playing, there are journals from frontier fiddlers where they notated tunes.
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenManWait, are you saying transcribing goes against tradition? That would be a false assumption.
Throughout time there have been fiddlers who learned to note that own playing, there are journals from frontier fiddlers where they notated tunes.
quote:
Originally posted by ChickenManquote:
Originally posted by ChickenManWait, are you saying transcribing goes against tradition? That would be a false assumption.
Throughout time there have been fiddlers who learned to note that own playing, there are journals from frontier fiddlers where they notated tunes.
I stand corrected! Were can I read more on these journals?
Anja - I don't know about journals, but there are several tunebooks you can read about and sometimes see online.
The Hamblen Collection - A collection of tunes from SW Virginia as played in the 19th century. Some familiar, and some obscure tunes. This collection was not transcribed by the original player, but by succeeding generations of his family.
heritagetunes.com/books/a-coll...llection/heritagetunes.com/books/a-coll...llection/
The late Chris Wig made the whole collection available as a zipped download:
chriswig.com/hamblen.html
The famous Long Island genre painter William Sidney Mount was also a fiddler, and he assembled a large collection of tune notation. Here's a great FHO discussion about him:
fiddlehangout.com/archive/35399
I think it was you who asked about the term "breakdown," and there's a painting there with that title. More recently a book was published with 30 tunes from his collection. Here's the introduction with one tune:
hangoutstorage.com/fiddlehango...12013.pdf
More recently (1974) my friend (and one of the first fiddlers I played with), Bill Welling, published a lovely little collection of 55 tunes called "Welling's Hartford Tunebook." It's mentioned online sometimes, but I don't know where you could find, or even see, a copy now.
PS - Mount's painting "The Breakdown" is dated 1835, so the term was in use at least that early. Even then it appears to have referred to dancing.
quote:
Originally posted by pete_fiddleEither paper and pencil, or MuseScore, and transcribing your own interpretation are likely the best tools for your job.
MuseScore will spit out a midi file of your interpretation. And import a midi file, ABC file, or .xml file from say "the session.org" or similar.
if you are transcribing your own version of a tune i would use paper and pencil first (maybe just stick with that?), then put that into MuseScore to get readable/shareable notation.
Then check the resulting midi to hear if it fits what you want it to sound like. All of the above require music notation and transcription skills. The audio to midi software is still rubbish, and requires more work than just transcribing it yourself. Or just writing it down with paper and pencil.
For me, I still prefer pencil and paper... it's a tactile connection thing.
I do use MuseScore (free), and software is useful as it has a MIDI playback, and can listen and evaluate. That said, I find the default violin sound not very good, and will often prefer a free reed instrument like Mussette. It is possible to get, load and use better violin family libraries, including awesome samples; some of those are bit pricey. Another option is to ask a fiddler (or more than one) to play from your notation.
In writing out transcriptions, or arrangements, or own composition... I found it can be great way to expand understanding about music; esp. phasing and nuances of micro timing, accent and bowing if going for that detail. As I write it down, have to think about the choices, which might in turn change how I would approach playing it. For example, maybe it would sound better as 3 note slur? Or maybe doesn't sound quite right is need to be more staccato short notes on some phrase, or played over bar slightly in front of the beat.
More play around with writing detailed notation for MIDI, to get it to sound what you want; more realize a lot of the nuances details involved in playing fiddle.
My experience is similar with using auto detect software, though are settings it can tough to adjust for right degree of detail, kind of end up with rubbish, or spend lot of time fixing. I find it just easier to do by hand. But as well it doesn't really help with the latter goal in expanding understanding of music.
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Originally posted by alaskafiddlerI do use MuseScore (free), and software is useful as it has a MIDI playback, and can listen and evaluate. That said, I find the default violin sound not very good,
You're right about that. I found it's better to set the sound to one of the pianos. Way better for simple clarity.
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