capefiddle - Posted - 04/11/2025:  07:14:30

Hello. Hopefully I can get some insight from the experienced players on this forum. I've been playing for about 6-7 months. The last 3 months I've been taking lessons. The teacher is good and I've learned quite a bit from her . Mostly it's good to "talk shop" with someone else in my pursuit of learning the fiddle. Her method is to have me and her other adult students learn a "song of the month" and have everyone gather once a month to kind of jam together. For me, the songs are a bit challenging. The first song, Lonesome Moonlight Waltz. The current is Clinch Mountain Backstep. I "eventually" can learn the song but when I play with monthly jam session I just get brain freeze, loose my place, forget the notes and basically just find the whole experience frustrating. I realize these are not "beginner" songs, which is what I'd call myself, a beginner. I'm starting to play scales and feel like I could just focus on that for the next 2 months. I suppose I'd just like to increase my comfort level with the instrument.
Any advice would be welcome. Thanks!
John

ChickenMan - Posted - 04/11/2025:  07:25:57

Wow, Lonesome Midnight Waltz is far from a beginner tune, with it's Dm key and the notes that don't actually fall into that scale. Have you shared you feeling with the instructor?

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/11/2025:  08:04:05

i f i had to learn that tune as a beginner, i would be happy if i could just whistle or sing along with it after a week or two . then at least i would know when i was putting my fingers in the wrong place when i attempted to play it.

NCnotes - Posted - 04/11/2025:  08:51:43

It seems like she might be jumping the level up a bit in the jams, so that students she’s had for longer don't get bored?



Playing in a group means you have to know the tune so well that your mind can listen and focus on the overall group sound while your body does its thing…(even if other players in the group are messing up a bit) … so it’s totally normal that this would be hard.



My first tune was Twinkle Twinkle Little Star ( slow with quarter notes, then with different bowing rhythms…)



Learning should be like video gaming…slowly leveling up as you master new skills…not jumping around in levels. If I am a beginning player and suddenly I advance to level 5, of course I am going to die in a few seconds! And feel frustrated too!

Edited by - NCnotes on 04/11/2025 08:53:27

DougD - Posted - 04/11/2025:  08:57:39

My advice would be to ditch that teacher, unless you're dying to learn exactly those tunes. Then I'd use the money you save to add a stop in Abingdon VA to your trip down here, betwee the Carter Fold and Floyd. Enjoy a rejuvenating night at the Martha Washington Inn, and take in a show at the Barter Theatre. You're too early for the Fiddler's Convention, but there are some good restaurants too.
This is serious advice, but I don't expect anyone to heed it. The "Martha" is kind of expensive, but you could at least use your savings for a stop at the Ridgewood barbecue in Bluff City TN, asuming you're an "eat meater," as a friend's young son used to say.
Really, I don't think your teacher is doing a good job. "Clinch Mountain Backstep" isn't even a fiddle tune - its a banjo piece.
Just my opinion, of course. Second what NCnotes said.

Edited by - DougD on 04/11/2025 09:00:14

wrench13 - Posted - 04/11/2025:  12:39:27

Yeah Lonesome Moonlight is not a beginner's tune, It'll teach you some good technique and fiddle theory but its not easy to play unless you have your fingering down well. Even though the first chord is Dm this tune is actually in the key of F.

capefiddle - Posted - 04/11/2025:  12:40:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by NCnotes

Learning should be like video gaming…slowly leveling up as you master new skills…not jumping around in levels. If I am a beginning player and suddenly I advance to level 5, of course I am going to die in a few seconds! And feel frustrated too!

---

I think I'm at what one would call an "inflection point" with the teacher I currently have.  I do think how you put it NCnotes is what I'm feeling.  Thanks for all the follow ups.... very helpful and something to kind of chew on.  Doug, I actually made reservations for Carter Family Fold when we're in that area on our upcoming travels.  I think I just need to get more comfortable with my fiddle and spend more time learning the "basics".  Thanks again for the feedback.  It does help.

John

ChickenMan - Posted - 04/11/2025:  20:28:46

John, your instincts are right. I think there's likely someone else for your next step.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 04/12/2025:  03:52:25

The right teacher is important. You as new to fiddle have a ton of work to put in over the next few years. Scales, tunes, improvisation, listening and watching, Be patient with yourself. Nerves and forgetting are more usual than not when starting this never ending journey. Tune up, play daily, change your strings a couple times a year and enjoy the process. You won’t regret it. Insofar as your teacher is concerned, learn at your pace, not someone else’s.

Strabo - Posted - 04/12/2025:  04:16:35

I agree. Be selective in choosing your next teacher. Figure out exactly what you need to learn and then interview teachers to find one who can give you what you need.

You're not five years old. Children need adults to direct them, but you can be your own boss and hire the correct teacher to give you what's right for you.

If you read through this forum you can determine what your learning priorities should be -- there are lots of knowledgeable people here.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 04/12/2025:  10:01:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by capefiddle

Hello. Hopefully I can get some insight from the experienced players on this forum. I've been playing for about 6-7 months. The last 3 months I've been taking lessons. The teacher is good and I've learned quite a bit from her . Mostly it's good to "talk shop" with someone else in my pursuit of learning the fiddle. Her method is to have me and her other adult students learn a "song of the month" and have everyone gather once a month to kind of jam together. For me, the songs are a bit challenging. The first song, Lonesome Moonlight Waltz. The current is Clinch Mountain Backstep. I "eventually" can learn the song but when I play with monthly jam session I just get brain freeze, loose my place, forget the notes and basically just find the whole experience frustrating. I realize these are not "beginner" songs, which is what I'd call myself, a beginner. I'm starting to play scales and feel like I could just focus on that for the next 2 months. I suppose I'd just like to increase my comfort level with the instrument.

Any advice would be welcome. Thanks!

John

---

If the teacher is asking you to learn new material without building up your technique, it's a waste of time and money. You can build repertoire without having to pay someone for it. Especially in the early stages of learning, the focus needs to be on technique, not tunes. If you can establish a strong technical foundation for playing, learning tunes will be easy when you're ready for them. 

 

Socializing with other players is very rewarding and encouraging, but violin lessons are supposed to be focused on targeted development of playing ability. If you're not seeing that, look elsewhere. 

 

Once you're able to start learning tunes from a solid foundation, learning only one tune for a month will seem inexorable. 

Brian Wood - Posted - 04/12/2025:  13:24:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by capefiddle

...Her method is to have me and her other adult students learn a "song of the month" and have everyone gather once a month to kind of jam together. For me, the songs are a bit challenging. The first song, Lonesome Moonlight Waltz. The current is Clinch Mountain Backstep. I "eventually" can learn the song but when I play with monthly jam session I just get brain freeze

---

I find it works well to learn technique through playing tunes. After all, tunes are what you are after, and tunes contain the very things you will be learning and improving on over time. I've never been big on etudes and scales, though that's going to depend on your learning style.

But in order for it to work there should be some progression, some connecting element as you go through new material. Playing tunes allows you to work on multiple techniques, unlike many etudes that focus on one thing. But again, it makes sense to have the material you're learning progress somewhat logically. I don't see an obvious connection between the first two tunes you are working on. Does the instructor have some kind of continuity in mind, or just teaching cool tunes in isolation?

After you've played for a while you'll have some skills to pick up a variety of different tunes more easily. But for beginning, I say have some continuity. Once you have some things down then you can maybe start working on different groups of tunes, or whatever. But start with one.

Also, song of the month (I prefer to call them "tunes") might be okay if you're meeting weekly or more often to work on them. It's hard to get a decent start if you're only getting instruction once a month.

Edited by - Brian Wood on 04/12/2025 13:25:46

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/12/2025:  15:39:14

i never quite understand the need for a teacher. Just learn by ear, or learn to read simple notation and play out of a tune book. fingering and bowing is up to yourself. understanding the music theory is an option that can help make different note choices. But apart from that it is Just down to yourself and how much you want to play fiddle.

Edit: With fiddle tunes there is no need to impress a maestro, or follow a conductor or even sight read, just get your idea of the tune across to folk. With your bowing, and your intonation, at your tempo, with your rhythm. The more you know about the tune the better will be your interpretation.

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 04/12/2025 15:47:55

buckhenry - Posted - 04/12/2025:  17:41:19

Tunes are made from scales and arpeggios, get to know them for specific tunes, and the tunes will come easier..

Old Scratch - Posted - 04/13/2025:  09:01:41

Just a "btw" about teachers: the one who is great for you might be terrible for someone else, and vice versa.

DougD - Posted - 04/13/2025:  09:58:00

Not sure the extent of your "vice versa," but from the point of view of the teacher, a student who's great for you might also be bad for another.
I haven't taught that much, but I have had students who could learn, and those who couldn't, and I'm not enough of a pedagogue to know if there was anything I could do about it.

Edited by - DougD on 04/13/2025 09:58:36

capefiddle - Posted - 04/13/2025:  10:23:12

Once again, thanks for all the great feedback. It's becoming very clear to me the "learning tunes" thing at the expense of not building a strong technical foundation for the instrument..... is not working for me. Even though at this point I feel I can muddle through Lonesome Moonlight Waltz and, now even, Clinch Mt Bckstp (even though a "banjo tune"), I'd be much better off spending my practice time learning scales and knowing/identifying the fingering placement (notes). And learning to stroke the bow clearly. If I could meet with a teacher once a month for an hour and spend most of my other time learning on my own via YouTube, books, etc..... that, I'm feeling, might work fine for me. I did sign up for a fiddle camp this summer. Looking forward to that. Thanks very much for the help!!
John

screecher - Posted - 04/20/2025:  08:04:10

I think your thinking about this is dead on. Since from the tunes you're playing, it sounds like you want to play bluegrass, I think that, for most bluegrass jams, fluency with the instrument, picking out melodies, harmonic theory, intervals, and scale patterns are more important than "learn this tune, then learn this tune, then learn this tune." Of course this depends on the jams you'll be going to. Some are tune-centric, but most are vocal-heavy and require playing in the keys selected by the singer.