NCnotes - Posted - 03/20/2025:  13:13:35

So…I learned a set from the YouTube of a well-known fiddler.
He’s coming to NC … and I might play in a session with him!

How “cringe” would it be to start the set that I learned from him, while mentioning that I learned it from his YT video?

…kind of like me sitting down to play with Doug and saying, “I want to play this tune with you…I learned it off a Highwoods track!” :-)

It would be so cool to play it with him, but I also don’t want to seem like a creepy fiddlefan…hahaha…
(Also he may be sick to death of it, after recording / performing that set?)

TuneWeaver - Posted - 03/20/2025:  13:43:51

Nice topic but here I am again.. I haven't subscribed to this topic or forum....The post offers me no opportunity to subscribe or to unsubscribe... WHat is with that???
Guess I'll have to just live with it!!

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 03/20/2025:  13:59:00

I bet the fiddler would be highly flattered. You'd make an instant friend. Just don't get angry if the fiddler's supportive chuckling turns into a laugh fest.

pete_fiddle - Posted - 03/20/2025:  14:04:20

Can't see any cringe at all .



So you learned a set of tunes from a fiddler on the internet and you might get to play them. What's Cringy about that?..



It's more Cool than Cringy. ... Don't know why the cool emoji has to wear glasses. Are glasses cool too?

Edited by - pete_fiddle on 03/20/2025 14:14:05

DougD - Posted - 03/20/2025:  14:21:55

An interesting question, so I've given it 45 minutes of deep thought. As I've said here before, I'm not much of a jammer, and have never been to an Irish session, so I may not know the etiquette, but here goes.
If you don't know the person, their mood, or how they feel about playing the set one more time, it might be safer and more courteous to ask them if THEY'D like to play the set - then you could join in and show your prowess, and then tell them how you learned it, etc. Lonesome Fiddler might be right though, and they might be flattered if you started it.
As far as Highwoods, I do participate in one jam each year, and this year someone asked me to sing a song we'd recorded. I was glad to do it, although I don't have the vocal power and range I did 50 years ago - but they didn't just start playing and singing it themselves. Some of the numbers we recorded are so common today (and some were then) that they get played without any particular connection to us.
Several times over the years I've found myself alone with a couple of my musical heroes and influences whom I thought I might not see again. I sort of wanted to tell them how much their music had meant to me, without drooling on my shoes, but the conversation went in other directions. In my experience, situations like that rarely go the way you think they might.
If you do get the opportunity to play with this person, I hope you enjoy it!

Edited by - DougD on 03/20/2025 14:29:30

groundhogpeggy - Posted - 03/20/2025:  14:35:26

I would wait until a certain comfort level in the jam is reached...then just say, oh, by the way, I really enjoyed learning these tunes from your YouTube channel. I think if you come on strong it might make him feel overwhelmed...I say, after having met only 3 musicians I greatly admire in my life, and slapping my admiration on them with too much right off the bat...lol.

TuneWeaver - Posted - 03/20/2025:  15:03:14

I can only relate that two years ago at the Indiana Fiddlers Gathering I was in a small jam of people that I didn't know.. One fiddler said, "Let's play Tippin Back the Corn"...Well, one particular man revolted and said something like, "No,NO I don't want to play that tune." Little did I know that the revolter was none other than Jordan ****off, the may who wrote the tune!!! PS, he is a Nice man..

NCnotes - Posted - 03/20/2025:  15:26:49

At Irish sessions, we kind of jump in and lead sets when the mood/timing strikes us. Sometimes people don't play on a set...don't know the tune, off buying a drink, chatting with their neighbor, or just sick of that tune...etc.



So, the most horrifying thing would be if I launched into that set...and he sat it out! 



But yea, I agree... probably good to play it cool and normal for awhile and treat him like a normal player / one of us for awhile...and maybe later I'll say, "How do you feel about xxxx? I love that set you play." Maybe contemplating, if I was a well-known fiddler who could play 500x better than everybody else, how would I want to be treated?

Like a regular person, I think! :-)

Cool to hear your own stories about it, Doug!

NCnotes - Posted - 03/20/2025:  15:30:57

And yea, I’m bringing my fiddle in hope.
But if they launch into long sets of obscure tunes at 150bpm, I’ll just listen.
All the heavy hitters of our area will be there, so I do kind of doubt I will belong in there! :-)

I will report back…:-)

alaskafiddler - Posted - 03/20/2025:  15:38:05

There might be an aspect to players feel a certain ownership to their setting, or arrangement, work they put into it; in similar way as if they wrote the tune.

What pops to my mind, if playing with someone that was the unique source for the tune/set and setting, and goal just playing that... my inclination would not be to just launch into it; rather bring it up and acknowledge that attribution. Then pretty much defer to them; let them take lead from there. They might suggest/ask you go ahead and lead it; maybe interested in how you play it; but that could be a bit intimidating...  evaluated/compared against source, and might not really got everything as they did. (or as Lee mentioned, might have reason they don't want to play or hear it)

Does it really matter if they are well known, from recordings/YT? I tend to do that to friends, neighbors, music acquaintances, who lack fame or recordings. If playing with Lee or Peggy, if intent was from their unique versions/style, would acknowledge and defer.

OTOH, if it's not really their unique setting... just a tune they play or recorded, but learned and are essentially sticking close to another source(s); or if just fairly common session version.

Edited by - alaskafiddler on 03/20/2025 15:53:59

wrench13 - Posted - 03/20/2025:  17:31:34

NC, when the Fiddle Fever album, the first one, came out, I learned just about every tune on it. Really well. Like 6 months later, at a thing called Monroe's Fiddle Day, a smaller town with a fiddle based bluegrass and OT festival, they were playing. The thing w/ that festival, any fiddler can come up on stage and play 3-4 tunes. You guessed it. I got up there, Molly Mason on bass, Russ Brandengurg played guitar and I told them the 3 tunes I wanted to do, all from the album. Which they obliged me by playing, but they were not happy about it, and Jay pulled me aside and said "Why?" We already knew each other some. I told him 'Cuz that album is Fing great and these tunes are great and I meant it to be a compliment.'. SO all was good.



But unless you have a relationship with this well know fiddler already, I'd not do that or at least ask first.

Edited by - wrench13 on 03/20/2025 17:33:25

NCnotes - Posted - 03/20/2025:  21:39:11

Wow, playing with Molly Mason and Jay Ungar :-D

Hmm…interesting that they were “not happy about it” at first…maybe they felt ‘copyright-violated’ or something? Great that you got to explain that your choice of tunes was meant to be a compliment!

yea, so I guess it’s one of those things I won’t know until I’m there…
if he is easygoing and playing standard tunes deliberately, and is an inclusive smiley type, I might ask/mention. But if he is playing with an intent expression at an elite level with the semi-pros of our area, I will NOT muddy those waters!

A long time ago, I met one of my design heroes.
I would clip her award-winning work out of the design magazines…I admired her work so much. Oddly, I wound up working in her husband’s studio as a junior designer and she dropped by one day. She was in a black leather jacket, chain-smoking, cursing a lot, and in an edgy mood …not at all like what I had envisioned! I couldn’t even tell her how much I admired her work…it didn’t seem like something she would really respond to or care about…
But I did buy the book of her work when it came out. Hahaha. :-)

I’m off to listen to “Fiddle Fever”, Al!

NCnotes - Posted - 03/20/2025:  21:44:59

And Geo, that is a really good thought and reminder…

Should acknowledge and defer to a player’s version, and be respectful of it, if you learned it from them and want to play it with them!

Edited by - NCnotes on 03/20/2025 21:45:29

Quincy - Posted - 03/21/2025:  00:32:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by NCnotes

So…I learned a set from the YouTube of a well-known fiddler.

He’s coming to NC … and I might play in a session with him!



How “cringe” would it be to start the set that I learned from him, while mentioning that I learned it from his YT video?



…kind of like me sitting down to play with Doug and saying, “I want to play this tune with you…I learned it off a Highwoods track!” :-)



It would be so cool to play it with him, but I also don’t want to seem like a creepy fiddlefan…hahaha…

(Also he may be sick to death of it, after recording / performing that set?)

---

Whahaha ... I feel like a creepy fiddle fan :-D:-D:-D

I bet you will do an excellent job!

DougD - Posted - 03/21/2025:  02:50:29

NCnotes - I posted this in a recent thread, but it bears repeating. This is a "modern" video of the members of Fiddle Fever playing their best known tune, in (I think) the original arrangement:
youtu.be/QDwoSRHy-0A?feature=shared

martyjoe - Posted - 03/21/2025:  03:08:44

Seems to me by your description that those tunes will probably come up in the session anyway and you’ll get a kick out of joining in.

The Violin Beautiful - Posted - 03/21/2025:  05:44:05

I think if you ask the player about playing the tune beforehand and do it in such a way that the player isn’t on the spot and forced to accept the suggestion in order not to look like a jerk for declining, it ought to be fine. Especially if the tune has been recorded and is widely available, there’s no surprise in your being familiar with it or having played that version yourself since hearing the recording. According to the old saying, “imitation is the best form of flattery,” so wanting to play the tune the way another player recorded it is a form of respect. If it’s a tune that the player has performed endlessly, they might not feel like trotting it out yet again, but there’s also a chance that playing a version that a player has recorded will be a welcome choice.

It never hurts to ask. Perhaps do so if you get a chance to do it quietly and not in front of the whole group. Even asking in the group is not necessarily a bad thing, it just puts the player on the spot a bit. Most professionals are gracious about it if you’re showing genuine appreciation.

NCnotes - Posted - 03/21/2025:  08:33:17

Doug, I could listen to that forever!! Love watching them play.

Hmm …
Based on seeing him perform, it will be me asking and then he’ll be like “oh sure! How did that start?” And then he’ll be like, “ what did we put that with?” LOL. At the concert they were forgetting the names of the tunes they were going to play…LOL :-)

Thanks for all the viewpoints, guys! I will let ya know what happens…:-)

wrench13 - Posted - 03/21/2025:  12:39:44

NC good as that is, listen to the first album!

H0tsauce - Posted - 03/27/2025:  08:33:46

OK first there's a good chance that he'll start the set himself. It might help to know who the player is, as his reputation might precede him. Second, perhaps at your regular session players take turns starting tunes, but this is not often the case at higher-level sessions, particularly when those sessions have a "special guest"; people are definitely attending to play in a session with this guy, not with the various randos who show up.
If it's not a take turns session, you may still be asked to start a set. There's a good chance it'll be because whoever is running it noticed that you haven't played many tunes, and they want to be sure you have a chance to get at least one in and be included. If that's the case, you'll want to start a set that you're confident that you can play well under pressure since everyone will be watching you. If this set falls into that category, go for it. If it doesn't, skip it.

Generally speaking though, I'd say play the set. It's not like you're getting paid, and if an Irish fiddler doesn't like someone starting a set in an open session that they put together and posted for everyone to see, honestly they're a jerk and their opinion on the matter is irrelevant. But it's more likely they'll be pleased to see a set they created in the wild.

NCnotes - Posted - 03/27/2025:  15:04:55

We’ll see how it goes!

I can play the set easily, but at .85 of their speed ( I know this because of YouTube, hahaha!)



I went to a house concert + session once before, last year. Before the concert we chatted and I told her I had learned a bunch of tunes from a book she put out.



Well, concert was great … but the session was not what I expected…

There was a pause after her concert, then people just got their instruments out and started playing tunes without her! When she finally joined us, she sat at the outer edge of the circle. When they asked her to start a set, she winked at me and strung together 5 tunes out of that book! I knew every one. :-)

The session went on, fast and furious…after a few more sets she wandered away again and started eating ( Our host had made scones).



So, I was surprised that they started playing without her, but maybe that’s how she wanted it!

Maybe performers feel tired /mellow after their concert and just wanna kick back and follow other peoples' tunes... who knows?

Edited by - NCnotes on 03/27/2025 15:07:19

Old Scratch - Posted - 03/28/2025:  08:53:47

Many people are more eager to play than to listen - which is fair enough, I suppose. But I know I've been frustrated at times when I've wanted to listen to someone who is a cut or two above the rest, and everyone else jumps in and drowns them out. It's particularly frustrating when it's some superior musician who you might never again get a chance to hear close up in an informal setting ... ah well, so it goes ... !

NCnotes - Posted - 03/28/2025:  09:17:54

That's how I felt! I was longing to play with HER, and hear HER.
But maybe she felt like, y'know, I just poured myself into this whole demanding concert and I want to relax and kick back now, and not lead the session...

wrench13 - Posted - 03/28/2025:  11:59:43

After our shows, I rarely sit in on the jam sessions that often occur. I love jamming but after a show I am kinda fagged out <-old guy these days!

farmerjones - Posted - 03/28/2025:  12:59:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by NCnotes

That's how I felt! I was longing to play with HER, and hear HER.

But maybe she felt like, y'know, I just poured myself into this whole demanding concert and I want to relax and kick back now, and not lead the session...

---

You possess good 'spidey' senses! 

Thanks for reporting back!

ChickenMan - Posted - 03/28/2025:  14:37:14

I notice the pronoun changed, wasn't the initial post a he and the final a she? I don't want to get into specifics, not being political, just I just got confused lol.

DougD - Posted - 03/28/2025:  15:05:04

There are two different events, one a house concert/session last year with a female fiddler and the other a session with a male fiddler, still to come. At least that's how I understand it.

NCnotes - Posted - 03/28/2025:  15:21:10

yep, the SHE was the last house concert + session I went to!



And the one with HE (where I learned his set) is coming up next weekend…

Thanks to all your thoughts, I will size up the situation and attempt to not behave like a creepy fiddlefan…:-)

Edited by - NCnotes on 03/28/2025 15:21:36

ChickenMan - Posted - 03/29/2025:  09:44:13

Thanks for clarifying

NCnotes - Posted - 04/06/2025:  22:39:32

OK guys, here is my update...



House concert -

First of all, they (fiddler + backer) are both amazingly talented musicians. I enjoyed the music so much!! A lot of people came alone…so I didn’t feel weird for going alone. I sat with 3 friends from my local sesh :-)



After the concert, people started getting out their instruments and taking seats in the circle. Our host kicked off a fast reel in D, and we were off. I was getting tired of the reels in D…which seemed to be all that people were starting…but then the performers pulled up chairs and joined in! It was fabulous to play with them…I had the guitar/bouzouki backer sitting right beside me, and could hear all the perfectly perfect stuff he was doing.



Eventually somebody started Earl’s Chair ... and both of them suddenly got up and left! LOL.

They must both hate that tune!? 

I actually never got to start that set I learned from them, because more experienced assertive players were jumping into the gaps...I did start the “Holly Bush” reel when my flute friend floundered after she played the ‘Gooseberry Bush” and couldn’t dredge up her second tune, hahaha. Yep saved her butt :-D



Well, now I am spoiled…I have never been in a session where everybody is listening and plays so tight, and all the backing (guitar, bouzouki, bodhran) is perfectly in the groove.  



(And, I am still getting used to this small world of folk music ... you go to somebody's concert ... watch their Youtubes and study their playing...but next thing you know, you are playing tunes with them and hanging out in the kitchen with them...!? "Fiddle fan" behavior would have definitely been out of place! )

TLDNR: Did not get to play the set I learned from them, but had a fabulous time...:-)

JonD - Posted - 04/07/2025:  20:26:29

I did a bit of internet sleuthing and I think I know the duo you saw last weekend - both are heroes of mine!
Lucky you, NCNotes!
Now that the event is past, are you willing to reveal the tune set? :-D Always on the lookout for a good one.
Jon

NCnotes - Posted - 04/07/2025:  22:17:53

Okay okay…I am weird about internet privacy, but here goes! (Did you guess right Jon? :-)



The duo: Andrew Finn McGill (fiddle) + David McKindley Ward (guitar, bouzouki, singing)

Both insanely talented! The last time I saw Finn in concert, he was with John Doyle. But I like the Andrew/David combo just as well!



The set I learned from their YouTube: Ah surely / West Clare Reel



Btw - After the concert Finn showed us his cool fiddle, strung GDAE but plays an octave lower. (@ MartyJoe!) But it's the same size as a regular fiddle,..Now I kinda want one…



Was sitting right next to David in session and was like, hmm he is used to hearing Finn playing next to him (ACK) so uh, sorry! But I got to hear the gorgeous stuff he does with backing… and he got asked to sing and did “Waterbound” so that was even more heavenly, since that is one of my favorites. :-) His chords are always so poetic.



Anyway this morning it was raining… Monday, had a work zoom, and it’s back to reality…Such is life!

Edited by - NCnotes on 04/07/2025 22:19:08

JonD - Posted - 04/08/2025:  05:58:21

Well I was half right! Andrew has also played with Alan Murray who is an absolute beast of a bouzouki player so I thought that might be the duo... but I like David's stuff as well and what a great guitar/ voice combo.
But I'm still curious about the tune set you were all ready to lead and didn't get to... :-)

NCnotes - Posted - 04/08/2025:  07:16:00

Ah Surely / West Clare Reel…

Ah Surely is popular at our sesh, so I set out to learn it, and learned it from their video here: 

youtu.be/OBJ_eGNPdKA?si=n8oPYqW0eoACFq9A



Would not have fit well in the string of happy D reels that people were launching...

These were players who have been “on the scene” way longer than me, play the local dances, etc so as a newbie playing with them for the first time, I’m not going to break in there!

In that video, I see that it's Alan Murray backing...Yes beastly! :-D

( David is no slouch in bouzouki either LOL...that's what he was playing, beside me. ) 

Edited by - NCnotes on 04/08/2025 07:28:30

NCnotes - Posted - 04/08/2025:  07:53:43

PS
And I am beginning to think I am a depressed weirdo! I gravitate to the modal tunes, and keys like Em and Bm… but at sessions people seem to mostly play sprightly tunes in D.

Thank heaven for my flute friend, who enjoys playing the old minor/modal stuff with me…who else can I find to play a set like Pipe on the Hob / Nightingale / Garrett Barry’s (as an example)…

martyjoe - Posted - 04/08/2025:  14:45:54

Some pretty awesome flute playing there!

NCnotes - Posted - 04/08/2025:  15:30:27

Yep! YouTube says it's Isaac Alderson.



I have played this set with my flute friend...but at like 70% of their speed...hahahaha.

I guess she needs to breathe, unlike Isaac - hahaha! Some of these fast fluters, I think they learned to breathe once every two minutes, haha.



And how's it going with your "Octave-Down" fiddle?

Finn played one in the concert, sounded awesome...he said it was not viola or cello strings...just literally 'octave-lower' strings. They did not look thicker in any way. I guess there must be some place you can buy/get them. It looked like a perfectly normal violin, so I guess you just put the strings on ... and voila?

Edited by - NCnotes on 04/08/2025 15:31:49

JonD - Posted - 04/09/2025:  05:08:52

"I gravitate to the modal tunes, and keys like Em and Bm..."

Those are the best keys!

NCnotes - Posted - 04/09/2025:  07:32:36

Well I hope I get to play with ya someday, Jon! :-D

Yea It seems like when a bigger group gathers, we play in D and G a LOT? I think it’s because a lot of players are crossovers from the other folk genres, and they easily pick up Irish tunes in those keys. Also I feel like a bit of contradance or bluegrass-type backbeat creeps in…
but hey, I am in NC and not in Ireland -
I go with the flow!

martyjoe - Posted - 04/09/2025:  14:52:13

Was the octave fiddle amplified at the concert? I believe the small bodied ones lack volume acoustically. Mine is a 16” viola body with cello strings. They say that the strings are your engine. So more the mass of the string the more volume and the longer the string & the lower the gauge the better the tone. The trick that I found to get the best compromise was to place the bridge the other side of the soundpost. This increases the vibrating string length and increases string tension and brings the bowing position back to the same as a regular fiddle. It also helps to keep the reach of your left arm manageable which is necessary for playing powerful tunes. The sessions over here are mostly played at that speed and around here it’s mostly accordions and banjos so I need to be LOUD. I’m usually the only fiddle in the pub.

 

NCnotes - Posted - 04/09/2025:  15:34:08

That is such an interesting setup, MartyJoe!

Thanks for showing/sharing.



Finn was not using a mic, but this was a house concert so we were all basically sitting around in a living room. And he used the "low octave" fiddle mostly to accompany or add a few drones when the bouzouki/guitar backer was singing (lovely stuff). So I guess he didn’t need a lot of volume with it. For reels and jigs, he switched back to his usual fiddle.



Interesting that you have accordions and banjos! That’s quite a punchy sound. We get mostly fiddles, flutes, whistles (usually the most numerous instrument is fiddles!)

Edited by - NCnotes on 04/09/2025 15:35:37

martyjoe - Posted - 04/10/2025:  02:52:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by NCnotes

That is such an interesting setup, MartyJoe!

Thanks for showing/sharing.



Finn was not using a mic, but this was a house concert so we were all basically sitting around in a living room. And he used the "low octave" fiddle mostly to accompany or add a few drones when the bouzouki/guitar backer was singing (lovely stuff). So I guess he didn’t need a lot of volume with it. For reels and jigs, he switched back to his usual fiddle.



Interesting that you have accordions and banjos! That’s quite a punchy sound. We get mostly fiddles, flutes, whistles (usually the most numerous instrument is fiddles!)

---

The first session I went to when I came to Mullingar I brought a B&C box and a flute. There was eight other boxes, two banjos and a guitar so I ended up playing the flute all night. Then I started on the fiddle and banjo. I found the fiddle too cramped for my fingers so I tried a GDAE tuned 1/2 size cello which is the same scale as the banjo. This has an absolutely fabulous sound but when I took it to a session I couldn't hear it at all. Other players could hear it clearly but that was no good to me so I started working on getting an instrument under my chin that both I and everybody can hear. Getting it to sound good and easy to play was a huge challenge and getting it to work is very satisfying. I'm looking forward to hitting some of the festivals with it this summer and I've entered it into the fleadh competition this summer under the miscellaneous category so we'll see how that goes. 

NCnotes - Posted - 04/10/2025:  10:34:28

8 boxes?! I've only ever played with a max of 2, ever! I can't even imagine...:-D

That is sure a lot of VOLUME! I don't know why here in the US, fiddles dominate. I guess lots of kids here get violin lessons, but few little kids get accordion lessons...anyway, it's relaxing to never be on the spot playing alone :-)



Have fun at the festivals this summer and hitting the Fleadh! I'm sure there will be a lot of curious players coming around to learn about your "tenor fiddle"!!



My flute friend and I are trying to plan a trip to Ireland...but she wants us to drive around in a car and I want to just take a bus tour...so I dunno if it will work out ... LOL.



Since I don't need to ever be that loud around here, I'll probably just lazily put low-octave strings onto a regular fiddle...I saw that Helicore has a set! And I do have an extra fiddle lying around...so, someday... :-) But your invention is so cool!

martyjoe - Posted - 04/12/2025:  02:52:26

I don’t have a lot of experience with bus tours even though I’ve driven a couple. I think that you’re more likely to find music here with the car option. Either way is pretty good. If you’re anywhere in the Midlands you’re more than welcome to look me up! There’s plenty of spare instruments here

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/12/2025:  14:28:15

I ended up having a Horse drawn caravan holiday in the midlands (County Laois). I took my fiddle and the folk where more than welcoming.



i left my hat there, (Ballyrowan i think...or it could have been Vicarstown), must go back and get it one day. Played frieze breeches at the old Frieze mills, trip to Durrow in Durrow and lads from laois in Portlaoise.



Stopped in pubs and farm yards etc, all the way..... brilliant...

NCnotes - Posted - 04/12/2025:  20:57:07

That sounds amazing, Pete! Hope you find your hat!
Perhaps I will play the West Clare reel in West Clare and see if anybody knows it, heh heh? Could play Cliffs of Moher on the cliffs, but people say it’s quite windy, not so great for music, hahaha…One of my favorite reels is “Within a Mile of Dublin” so maybe could play that too, if I hit the right radius… :-)

And thanks MartyJoe, will message if she wins and we wind up there in a car. :-)

DougD - Posted - 04/13/2025:  03:53:51

NCnotes - IMHO, bus tours are for tourists! You are an explorer and need to be able to follow the wind. You might miss some things (like the Blarney stone) but you'll discover other, better ones. You might get "lost" but as the Beatles said "Something's bound to happen," and it will no doubt be interesting.

Edited by - DougD on 04/13/2025 03:54:28

NCnotes - Posted - 04/13/2025:  07:57:57

I just have visions of us being on a single-track farm lane with no service, and the only beings around to ask for directions are sheep… I can not live without google maps! (Sad, I know :-).

But I know you have a point… ( and hmm yes, easier for the two of us to check out a session that way ).

pete_fiddle - Posted - 04/13/2025:  10:16:07

in my experience i didn't need to find a session, just turn up at the pub with your fiddle and see what happens.....