harpon - Posted - 05/18/2014:  09:59:03

Just got a 16" five string viola- nothing very special- sorta entry level I guess-

I like playing my regular 16" viola- but always miss the high E string then-

My hands have old injuries and I seem to stay on key better on the larger size-

so I'm trying the 5 string-

My initial impression is that I'm going to like it- it seems "do-able" and I didn't really know what to expect-

It does seem to me that the standard size peg box is just a little too busy then, and that perhaps they could lengthen that just a smidge.

In fact the very upper peg- the D string- seemed to be hanging up on the upper side of the peg box until I took the peg out and filed that surface smooth and flat.

The three pegs on that side are very close and it's hard to tune the middle one

when  the flats of the pegs point in certain directions.

The add on tuners are a bit hard to work as well- and the ad pictured an alloy tailpiece with built in tuners-which I think I'd like better so I may change that out some day-

For now I'm going to put a wider bridge on that will give me another 2-3 mm to distribute across the strings which seem to be spaced almost as wide as a 4/4 fiddle but maybe half a millimeter less between each string

I think my normal adult hands can handle it- smaller ones might find it difficult

I don't think it will replace my fiddle all that much, but I will probably play the 5 string viola more than the four string

but only time will tell- I'm excited about it- and getting the tuning almost dialed in.

Mandogryl - Posted - 05/18/2014:  11:35:52

It looks really nice, have fun with it and report back with your progress. Thanks for posting the pictures.

harpon - Posted - 05/19/2014:  13:11:35

The tailpiece has not been set-up that well I think-

it's a good half inch or slightly more from the end of the body, so one thing I'm going to do is to try to get some more afterlength on the strings.

I've also been looking at other 5 string tailpieces, and have yet to find any listings for Whittner or whittner style alloy tails with the built in tuners for VIOLA, to get more string length

And then of course, the tailpieces for violin don't generally include many specs- particularly for the WIDTH

which I'm most concerned about- because if I can get a tailpiece wide enough for the wider bridge I have to put on it, I'm not otherwise concerned as much over the length.

The other issue is and was that it arrived with the soundpost rattling around inside of it

and when re-installing it I found it is cut rather short and now it only wedges at a point too far behind the brdge

so I'm also going to at some point be cutting a new one and installing that

the good news is that it's coming into better consistent held tuning

and I really seem to get a more natural dancing flow to my fingers on the upper treble string

so I think I'll like the 5 string setup here

The E string broke from the start so replaced it with a standard violin E which doesn't appear to be guaged correctly perhaps?

I can't seem to find any listings for 5 string viola E strings or even any complete sets of 5 strings-

does anybody have any experience with either 5 string violin or viola sets of strings?

Photo from their ad-

I had to file the peg box at the top- left arrow- for string clearance

and note the afterlength of the strings with that different tailpiece

the ebay seller says he will ship me one for $18- kinda lame I think- but maybe he'll come down

hummyfan - Posted - 05/20/2014:  14:16:33

You asked "Anyone into 5 strings? Impressions?"  I L-O-V-E my 5-string viola. FYI, the Fiddle Hangout has a small group called 5 strings. We'd like you to join our group. 

In June 2011, I bought a 5-string 14.5 " long viola. If a tune's part B is mostly on the E string I can often play the same melody a full octave lower. The week after my 5-string arrived, I took it to the Cowan Creek Old-time Music School in Whitesburg, Ky. Kentucky fiddler Paul David Smith spent an afternoon teaching us his favorite Kentucky fiddle tunes with Betty Vornbrock playing along. She called the style "twin fiddles." When Paul went high, Betty's accompaniment would swoop low.  It was wonderful. Betty also did a CD with J.P. Fraley called "Side By Side" (from Burning Wolf Music, 2002) Betty and J.P. played his favorite waltzes. I think you can get the CD through Amazon.com or the iTunes store. I know you can get it by going to Betty Vornbrock's web site for her band, the Reed Island Rounders  reedisland.com

In your second post you described a shortened sound post (ouch, more repairs in your future) and a strange sounding e-string. Be careful not to mix brands of strings. I bought a complete set of violin steel core strings plus an octave D string from the same manufacturer. I replaced the lowest sounding string, the C string with that D string. Then I tuned the 5-strings C, G, D, A, E The results sound good to me. I also put a wider bridge on my 5-string. I had some trouble trimming the bridge height down but it was worth it. Now I can play cross-string tunes more easily.

If you are putting together a pros vs cons list I have mostly positive things to say about playing a 5 string. The only con is the additional weight of the bigger, longer instrument. Whenever I sit in 3-4 hour jam sessions and play my 5-string, by the end of the jam I feel like my left arm is about to fall off.

Mandogryl - Posted - 05/20/2014:  15:28:37

Helicore makes sets for a 5 string viola. Met Music carries them and you can also just purchase the E.

nfritzjr - Posted - 05/25/2014:  04:57:53

@hummyfan i didn't see the 5 string group in the list of groups?

never mind found it

Edited by - nfritzjr on 05/25/2014 05:02:31

fiddlepogo - Posted - 05/25/2014:  12:41:31

(sigh...)

Wish I had the MONEY to be into 5-strings!

Congratulations on your new acquisition!

harpon - Posted - 05/25/2014:  18:36:33

I got mine at low bid on ebay- the lowest cost I could find-

ebay.com/itm/5-String-New-Acou...ad43865cc

I'm fairly happy with it, but it's not for the fainthearted I think- the set-up I'm going through with it is just a little more than with the other fiddles I've had-  the sound post was rattling around inside- I replaced it but it was short- as son as I loosened the strings again it came right down again- though I have some posts on order- all I had to replace it for now was a violin sound post- a mm or 1/2 mm thinner-

the Soundpost Pro tool is pretty easy to use- but I'll eventually get the heavier frame because I can't get much force on the original version at the end- and as of yet have no other sound post tools-

youtube.com/watch?v=uCOqXdAjaN4

looking at the other tool with the push hooks on the end and thinking- can't the hook portion be longer vertically?  To get more push into a larger center portion of the post without knocking it over.?

ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-Viol...7deab9a9b

If I get the heavier frame sound post Pro- perhaps I'll never need the other- It's getting easier each time, and I'm getting a better feel for the height of the post- the original is definitely cut too short-

I also pulled down the tailpiece a good 1/2 inch to make it flush with the bottom of the body- and the string after length is now more normal.

I've more closely now compared the peg box with a regular 16 inch viola- and it appears the 5 string is much as thought- 5 pegs more crammed into the same size box- the 5 string box is just barely larger- I think mostly just a variation between makers than a string-specific design- in fact the farthest peg hole is actually only extending a half-hole beyond the length of the 4 string peg separation- so it is a little tight-

I think it will eventually break in and all be fine- but a larger peg box would make things easier.  The outer strings really make contact with the inside of the box before leaving, and although the bridge is wider, string separation is still most limited by the nut at the top- also wider but not by much- notched wider more than actually wider.

I got an even wider bridge for it now- 52mm- and am still cutting it down-it appears that when I put it in place there's a tendency for the strings to pull it to the right as I face it- away from the side with the THREE strings-

Has anyone noticed this phenomenum?  I was wondering as to why the three pegs were placed on the bass side and not the trebles- because it seems like there may be more tension on the heavier strings-

while they at least wind around the pegs in thicker fashion.

It's probably not enough to run the e string beyond the fingerboard, but it is slightly annoying.

Someday when I get it together and some practice time I'll post a sample vid.

Edited by - harpon on 05/25/2014 18:45:59